Old Spongebob vs. New Spongebob (Phoenix Wright Style)!

He helps Sponge Bob cheat. He's supposed to be super stupid.

HOLD IT!!

That counts as a different trope than derailing. Derailing only counts if it's after a while. They were still deciding Patrick's character. Maybe he was a Genius Ditz originally.

edited 4th Feb '11 8:41:09 PM by Fusionman

Take That!

I'd like to present the episodes "Naughty Nautical Neighbors", "Suds", and "Squidward the Unfriendly Ghost" toward the Patrick Genius Ditz theory.

Take That!!

And the post-movie episodes "The Great Patty Caper" and "Rule of Dumb".

The trope your thinking of is Characterization Marches On.

By the way. Great thread! Keep it up!

edited 14th Feb '11 3:29:02 PM by DrStarky

Since the main problem with New Spongebob is the insane amounts of Flanderization for all the characters, let's get some examples of pre-Flanderization and post-Flanderization for each character. I propose we start with Spongebob.

TAKE THAT!

I'd say the first Flanderized thing about Spongebob would be his obsession with Squidward. While we have that one line from "20,000 Patties Under the Sea", there's also a few egregious examples in "Good Neighbors", "Squid Wood", "Squid's Visit", and, of course, "Boating Buddies" to name a few.

The worst part may actually be that even Spongebob's Flanderized personality isn't even constant. In Old Spongebob, Spongebob behaves the same way between episodes despite possibly losing a bit of naivety as the series progresses. In New Spongebob, however, it's as if we have a different Spongebob every episode, and each one gets more annoying than the next. Let's just take four random episodes and compare them. Two from each series. Valentine's Day and Krab Borg vs. Banned in Bikini Bottom and Roller Cowards.

Why does this thread die every 3 posts or so. It needs to be bumped again :(

I have alredy said what do I think of Old and New spongebob...

Here's an interesting thought. If New Spongebob were to be put into the same situation as Old Spongebob, would he behave differently? "Club Spongebob", for instance.

I think people should stop thinking for hard about it, and just enjoy it

Quiet you! This thread is actually good and civil and intelligent.

It has every right to be a terrible gripefest but it's not!

Keep it going.

edited 23rd Feb '11 4:58:52 PM by DrStarky

Personally, I just can't picture New Spongebob actually saying "We've been stuck up here for 3 days" in such a deadpan manner. I would imagine most of the episode would be similar but Spongebob and Patrick would be a lot more annoying about the Magic Conch Shell. Also, given Squidward's increased animosity toward Spongebob and Patrick, it would seem more likely that the episode would either go somewhere along the lines of "To Save A Squirrel" ending up with them trying to eat each other or have Spongebob and Patrick go into "Super Annoyance" mode where they sit there with that◊ face and have bugs crawling on and inside their eyes while Squidward becomes twice as annoyed as he did in the actual episode.

It looks like a terrible moan fest to me

I would say that's mainly because more people seem to be on the Old Spongebob side. This thread works both ways you know.

Hey, I prefer old too, but doesn't mean I still don't like new.

I don't know what Phoenix Wright is, so I've been avoiding getting into this. I feel I must speak now, though.

Classic Spongebob=The protagonist may be different, but he's still happy. He's okay with who he is, and he's smart in ways he doesn't even understand himself. He's basically an aspie.

Modern Spongebob=HE'S A RETARD LOL WATCH HIM DO STUPID CRAZY STUFF

People who can't tell the difference between modern and classic Spongebob don't understand the character, what he stands for, or why millions of children once looked up to him.

Spongebob presented in a VERY SUBTLE way the idea that being different isn't such a bad thing. It obviously wasn't intended to have a moral, but this happened anyway, and it's part of the reason kids like him. They identify with him. He's not retarded, he's just child-like and a bit naive.

So we've gone from the message that being different is okay to the message that being different makes you a retard. YAY!

Made Of Win

• Sigh* Agreed

and /thread

Here's an appropriate question: Which is closer to Old Spongebob, the older seasons or the later seasons of New Spongebob?

later seasons

As I've never played Phoenix Wright before I have no idea how they present this but NEW EVIDENCE:

Ever since the post movie episodes, both Squidward and Plankton have stepped away from the Grumpy Bear and Designated Villain, respectively, to being Only Sane Man and The Woobie. While some may argue that this is a step down for the characters, it's also obvious that because of the level of jerk assery taken by the main characters, both of Squidward and Plankton have become much more likable as a result as we empathize with their torment.

Case in point: Compare Plankton in "Plankton" vs "Plankton's Regular". In the former, the character represented nothing more than conflict for the Krusty Krab and Spongebob, with a single minded obsession to steal the formula. In the latter, he's a much more fleshed out multi dimensional character, infinitely more empathetic, and by the end of the episode it's hard not to feel sorry for him while Krabs laughs at his misfortune.

If there's at least one relatively positive thing that came out of the New Spongebobs its that by turning your main character into a unlikable jerk, the show balances it by making the shows "villains" incredibly more enjoyable. They're much more entertaining to watch now and I like to think that they've become the new protagonists of the series.

Analyze.

edited 26th Feb '11 11:56:29 PM by Mattonymy

For future reference, here's the guide to Phoenix Wright:

TAKE THAT! is used for new evidence by itself. HOLD IT! is for questioning part of someone else's evidence. (You can also use NOT SO FAST!) OBJECTION! is for presenting evidence that contradicts someone else's evidence. GOTCHA! is probably the least likely to be used because you use it if someone says exactly what you wanted them to say.

That being said, OBJECTION!, in your comparison of "Plankton's Regular" to "Plankton" I'd like to point out that "Plankton" was Plankton's first appearance and being a simple point of conflict was his only natural option. I'd say "The Algae's Always Greener" provided some Character Development as Plankton didn't even try to steal the Krabby Patty formula in that episode.

I have to agree with you on the point of Plankton and Squidward being more sympathetic, because when Spongebob and Mr. Krabs become that jerky, you just have to feel sorry that they're involved in the plot.

edited 27th Feb '11 6:50:36 AM by Mario4812

FALCON PUNCH!

Do you guys think that Spongebob is getting better becuse it's becoming truer to the older seasons or because it's embracing the changes and playing them for drama?

Both. Sometimes it plays the changes for drama, other times, it is more like the old seasons.

I just can't say that Spongebob is getting better. It seems to be drifting farther and farther away from its roots.