Rebuild of Evangelion

A reverse pzombie? What... like someone with two souls or something? I'm confused.

Rei's sequence was awesome. "Iie. Watashi wa watashi." She fought off the crazy long before anyone else did, just through her own self awareness.

And I cried so much when she smiled and said, "One day, he will abandon me...", because it was then that I realized that's all she had to look forward to.

You connected emotionally to Rei?

I really need to re-watch this series now.

Rei creeped me out, but that would probably be alleviated by more navel-contemplation in the final episodes.

(what the hell is with this spellcheck, "creeped" is wrong but "funnest" is right?)

Slightly less unrelated, Neon Genesis Evangelion is the only work with its own High Octane Nightmare Fuel page. I didn't know that.

v Oh, that makes more sense.

edited 29th Jun '09 10:18:25 PM by Tzetze

A reverse pzombie? What... like someone with two souls or something? I'm confused.

Someone that experiences qualia but doesn't give any obvious outward indication, I'm guessing.

@Tzetze: Technically the correct past-tense is 'crept'. 'Creeped out' is slang referring to motion in a different direction from the standard word, so the dictionary doesn't cover it.

@Glenn: It might just be a girl thing.

edited 29th Jun '09 10:33:15 PM by FurikoMaru

@Tzetze:

A P-Zombie is a theoretical creature that doesn't have sentience or emotions, but acts and responds as if it had them. I proposed that Rei is a reversed P-Zombie, since she has sentience and emotions, but acts as if she doesn't. (Most of the time, at least.)

I'm a girl and not emotionally connecting to Rei, either. I'm on episode 11 and worried about Asuka because I've already read the ending. When that sort of person gets hurt, they get hurt...

What about Shinji, though, and the emotional responses he gets from us?

Well then, maybe it's a me thing. I have a lot of those.

I've definitely emotionally connected to Shinji, to a very great extent.

And while he's a boy, I wouldn't call him a stereotypical boy by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, for what it's worth, I felt emotionally connected to Asuka as well. As well as Misato.

Even Gendo, to some extent, when it became obvious that he was no better than the rest of the human characters.

I think my lack of connection to Rei is a combination of the following factors:

• her emotionlessness (not stoicness; I felt bad for Fate Testarossa, and she's stoic. Rei is emotionless.)
• her being not quite human, along with her origins, as a clone of Yui
• a sprinkling of Hype Backlash, probably

edited 30th Jun '09 8:45:35 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

Isn't she just a Kuudere, not emotionless?

See, I can't feel bad for kuudere just for being kuudere (overall it's probably the most healthy of the three dere archetypes). They have emotions that can break through; Rei's were stripped from her. Her entire self was streamlined to suit Gendou's needs. He has locked her in a semi-newborn-hood; the rare times she does display emotion are after time has passed and she's been socialized a bit.

And that is why I feel for her; nothing will win my sympathy faster than knowing that someone was robbed of their right to be angry at what has been done to them.

"An emotional change causes certain muscles in the face to tense, producing an 'expression.' Rei is expressionless but is it that she doesn't feel emotion, or that she is merely unable to express it?" -Yoshiyuki Sadamoto

"It began when the director told me, 'It's not that she doesn't have emotion, but that she doesn't know what it is.' His technical request was that I should read my lines as flat as possible. But she's obviously not a machine; she's a human being, flesh and blood. It's a huge difference between 'not having emotion' and 'not knowing emotion.' After all, she could develop feelings, once she learned..." -Megumi Hayashibara

Rei is a reversed P-Zombie, since she has sentience and emotions, but acts as if she doesn't.

Is there a trope for that P-Zombie thingy, anyway? 'Cause I know at least one perfect example.

edited 30th Jun '09 10:56:15 AM by Smokie

Well, I guess, since I see "human vs. inhuman" as a major theme in the series, that barrier's harder for me to cross.

I see what you mean, but I still can't quite see Rei as human.

And for what it's worth, I guess I don't see it as that they were stripped from her. I see her as never having had them anyway, since her soul is that of Lilith, who isn't human, and thus "doesn't understand human emotion".

So I guess, I don't see her as a kuudere I don't see what's "beneath the cold exterior". Now, why she keeps on spouting near-nihilistic philosophy when alone is something I don't yet understand.

On the other hand, I don't know why Kirika isn't on that list...

Edit: Ninja'd by Shay Guy and Smokie. I don't have anything to say in response to their posts, but I just wanted to note that I was mainly replying to Furiko Maru's post.

edited 30th Jun '09 10:58:59 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

On the Kuudere -issue, I'd say that there's a definite difference between someone who has no emotions or cannot express them and later learns to expresses them, and someone who seemingly has no emotions but can turn that façade on and off, much like there is a difference between someone who alternate between loving and cranky, and someone who stops being cranky once their romance gets going. (Not So Stoic/Tin Man (Not So Emotionless?) vs. Tin Man and Tsundere vs. Defrosting Ice Queen)

Have I mentioned there exists a fourth, -dere in fairly common use?

No, what is it?

Also, how is kuudere the most healthy of the three dere stereotypes? I can understand yandere being pretty dangerous, but why not tsundere?

Oh no, not another -dere! Three was bad enough.

Wait, what are the three, if not tsun, kun, and yan?

Supposedly, they switch between being really quiet all the time, and talking quite a lot, usually not in public. So there four -deres I know (I Gotta Catch Them All) are Tsundere, (Cranky/Loving) Yandere, (Loving/Insane) Kuudere, (Stoic/Loving) and the Danadere. (Quiet/Talkative)

Apparently only the Yandere and the Danadere are "allowed" to be loving in public.'

@Bobby G: I'm not going to the YKTTW, so if you don't go there, and we kill everyone else who has read my post...

edited 30th Jun '09 11:17:26 AM by LatwPIAT

Well, a lot of Tsunderes can be jerks. And the caption on the page isn't a neccesarily healthy means of dealing with emotions.

Although the "dere" terms are widely controversial, I don't think Kuudere has anything to do with not having emotions.

Actually, the trope already says it. The outer shell may be cold, uncaring, practical or cynical without being combatative but hides a really dere side.

As an example of Suzumiya Haruhi, that's why Kyon is a Kuudere while Yuki is not.

Now, I can see how Rei sorta fits into this, but I'm not an expert on Evangelion, nor do I know if "Kuudere" refers to the 'flip' definition, the 'change over time' definition or both.

Edit: I've never heard of "Danadere". I can't imagine it either, since dere means 'lovestruck'. If dana is "quiet", there would still be no "talkative" thing in it. I've never really seen such characters either. What I could imagine is someone flipping between genki and depressed. I'm looking at you, Haruhi.

edited 30th Jun '09 11:18:12 AM by Smokie

It probably doesn't help the classification of Rei that, well (ep. 23 spoiler) Died and then cam back again, this time loosing the emotions she had gained over about 9 years.

Never heard of danadere here, either.