Once Upon a Time in Hollywood / YMMV

Alternate Character Interpretation: Many have interpreted Cliff's recounting of his fight with Bruce Lee as being a case of him embellishing the situation in order to make himself look better as a means of justifying Lee's controversial portrayal in the scene (him remembering tossing Lee into a car with such force that it caused a massive dent in the side with barely two feet of lead-up gives credence to this). Quentin Tarantino's own novelization portrays Cliff as a far darker character than is apparent in the film, who unambiguously shot that harpoon at his wife (though even he isn’t sure whether it was deliberate) and is constantly struggling to keep his violent impulses under control. Moreover, Bruce Lee himself in the novelization is revealed to be not trying to hurt Cliff due to already having accidentally broken a person's jaw on set, deliberately choosing to attack him in a way that looked flashy but wouldn't do more than put him on his ass, so Cliff tossing him into a car takes him by surprise, and by the third round he takes him seriously as a killer.
Aluminum Christmas Trees:
- Manson tells Jay Sebring he's a friend of Dennis Wilson (of Beach Boys fame) when he's scoping out the Cielo Drive house. They actually did know each other rather well; Dennis met Manson after picking up some hitchhiking Family members in 1968 (not unlike Cliff), and Manson's Family later moved into Dennis's house (uninvited). Manson even wrote a song that the Beach Boys recorded and released. Their relationship then deteriorated, Manson, disappointed and showing his anger, suddenly sent Dennis death threats, and the Family were soon kicked out of Dennis's house. Dennis had also introduced Manson to Record Producer Terry Melcher,^note but the two disliked each other. It seems (both in Real Life and In-Universe) that Manson targeted the Cielo Drive house because it was Terry's old house.
- Sharon Tate and Bruce Lee really did know each other, and he really did serve as a martial arts advisor on the set of The Wrecking Crew — so Sharon's flashback about getting martial arts training from Lee is based on factual details.
- A lot of Sharon's routine in the film is accurate to her final months. Her placing an order at a LA bookstore for Thomas Hardy's Tess of the D'Urbervilles for her husband to read really did happen. Sharon liked the book and believed she could play the title character, and that Polanski would make a great film of it. A decade or so after her death, Roman Polanski made Tess and dedicated the film to her. Likewise, the scene where "Charlie" comes to the house asking for Terry Melcher only to glimpse Sharon at the doorway also happened, as reported by her photographer friend, who intercepted Manson and told him Terry wasn't there.
Award Snub: Margot Robbie's performance as Sharon Tate was so convincing, Debra Tate, the real Sharon's sister wept at the premiere because she felt like she was seeing Sharon again. But around the same time, she also starred in the drama Bombshell (2019), in which she had a bigger role — so naturally, that's the film she was nominated for at the Oscars that year.
Base-Breaking Character:
- A strange example with Sharon Tate. Most people agree that Margot Robbie was very well cast and did a good job, but the character’s role in the plot is divisive, as the character was accused of both being underutilized and sucking up too much screentime. Many thought that despite the character being built up in the advertising quite a bit, she ends up doing fairly little in the film proper. Others said that her sequences take up too much time in an already long film, and add very little to the plot (particularly her visit to the Playboy Mansion). The fact that she’s the third-biggest role but has very little dialogue (a rarity for major Tarantino characters) was seen as a wasted opportunity by many, as does her only having a single, very brief interaction with Rick and none with Cliff. Ultimately, the character's detractors believe that the fictional Sharon Tate doesn’t live up to the real life actress and that the film wastes too much time on a character who adds very little to the story and has nothing to do. However, fans of the character believe that she's a great, idealistic presence, and that Robbie perfectly embodies the real life figure despite not having much to work with. So ultimately, the dividing point is whether people think the character’s likability and Robbie's performance makes up for her many scenes that are largely unrelated to the plot.
- Another example of a real life figure's representation is Bruce Lee’s portrayal. Mike Moh's performance was praised, but many objected to Lee's characterization. The big set off for many was how he's depicted as a smug braggart who is quick to pick fights and is shown to boast about how he could beat Muhammad Ali. The last point offended many, given it's blatantly historically inaccurate and only made it into the story because Quentin Tarantino misread a passage from Linda Lee's book^note which stated that people who’d seen Lee fight believed he could beat Ali^note. Then there's the fight between him and Cliff, specifically how Lee falls for an obvious move that the real life legendary fighter would've easily seen coming. While we don't see how the fight would've ended, many believed that Tarantino was being extremely disrespectful to Lee, showing him as an unskilled Jerkass Know-Nothing Know-It-All who gets beat up, and this is especially bad when you see that Tarantino was originally going to have Cliff definitively beat Lee, with Brad Pitt stepping in and making him change it to a tie. More fuel was added to the debate with Tarantino himself defending the decision by asserting that, as a fictional character, Cliff can be as strong as he wants him to be, comparing "Bruce Lee vs Cliff" to "Bruce Lee vs Dracula", to which Shannon Lee then accused Tarantino of having it both ways, claiming artistic license and historical accuracy at the same time, and pointed out that Lee is the only historical celebrity figure shown in a non-hagiographic light in the film as compared to Steve McQueen, Sharon Tate, and Roman Polanski. Despite all of this, many find the fight scene between Cliff and Lee to be very entertaining moment despite all of those issues, including some who acknowledge that Lee's character is definitely mishandled. So ultimately, there's three camps revolving around Bruce Lee's role: those who found it to be disrespectful, those who found it to be enjoyable, and those who say it's both.
Broken Base: The movie is unlike Tarantino's other movies, and viewers were split on whether that is a good or bad thing. While some have praised the movie for the performances, aesthetics, and production values, many Tarantino fans miss the brutal violence, dark humor, and the hot-headed characters that defined his previous movies.
Catharsis Factor: Seeing the Manson Family members get absolutely destroyed by Cliff and Rick is guaranteed to set off cheers and applause. Doubles as a Moment of Awesome.
Crosses the Line Twice:
- In the midst of a delirious and homicidal frenzy, Susan crashes through Rick's patio door and falls into his pool, firing wildly in the air. Taken by surprise, Rick panics and flees to his shed but then emerges moments later with the flamethrower he stole from a movie set and proceeds to blowtorch the home invader to death in a fashion that would put his own films to shame.
- Right before Susan’s death, Patricia “Katie” Krenwickel is brutally killed by Cliff just viciously smashing her head into anything in front of him, including pillars and telephones, as he walks around the house high on LSD. By the time he drops her pulverized, faceless corpse, it’s obvious she’s been dead for a good long while. It’s so absurdly and needlessly violent, it becomes almost as comical as Susan’s death.
Ensemble Dark Horse: Brandy ended up becoming quite beloved thanks to being an adorable, funny, and loyal dog to Cliff, but especially because she saves the day by helping Cliff and Rick fuck up the Manson Family, killing Tex Watson herself. Her actress Sayuri even ended up winning the Palm Dog Award at Cannes.
Epileptic Trees: Not long after the trailer hit online, several fans began to speculate the identity of Kurt Russell's, at the time, unnamed character. Given his role as a mentor to Cliff and the fact that Tarantino likes to connect his movies, people began theorizing that Russell was secretly reprising the role of Stuntman Mike from Death Proof. Soon after, the character's name was revealed as Randy. This made the theory less likely, but not impossible, as others were quick to point out that Randy could easily just be an alias Stuntman Mike is using. However, this brings up a bit of Fridge Logic. Randy seems to have a sound moral compass; he tries to avoid working with Cliff because of the murder rumors (and because both he and his wife regard Cliff as "creepy"). If Randy really became Mike, what turned him into a Serial Killer, and what happened to his wife? And what about the fact Randy is visibly older than Mike? And if Randy isn't Mike, could they be relatives?
Fanfic Fuel:
- In the film's alternate history, Charles Manson is still at large after the 1969 murders are stopped, and has plenty more "family members" at his beck and call to carry out his murderous plans. Cliff might not know why Tex, Sadie, and Katie were there to kill them, but he knows where their fellow acolytes can be found. Additionally, Flower Child, who testified against the family in real life, drove off before the attempted murders, and could be a witness in this reality as well.
- In real history, in the aftermath of the Tate murders, Manson led his family to the LaBianca killings that happened the very next night on August 9. Manson apparently didn't think the killings of Tate and her friends was bloody enough, so he organized a second murder the night after with the deaths of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, a supermarket executive and his wife, who were chosen randomly as victims just to show the family how to do it properly. It's more than likely that Manson won't let one failure stop him from trying to achieve his "Helter Skelter" plans.
- What kind of career will Sharon Tate go on to have in a universe where she wasn't murdered? Also, what will her child be like? Related: what about her husband? Will Roman Polański still commit rape in a world where his wife and child are alive? The scene at the Playboy Mansion seems to imply that he'll end up "fucking it all up" somehow, but is it inevitable in this universe? One scene in the film shows Sharon buying Hardy's Tess of the D'Urbervilles as a gift for her husband, in the hope that he might make a film of it, which happened in real life. Polanski in real life did make that movie ten years after her death and dedicated it to her. So in this reality, it's likely that Sharon plays Tess in a Polanski movie made much earlier. Roman was in London preparing The Day of the Dolphin as a project on the night of her death, so it's also possible that movie, which Polanski dropped out of in real life in the aftermath, gets made by him too. A minor quibble is whether Chinatown still gets made, since in real life that was, as Polanski attested, a Money, Dear Boy project he wasn't especially keen on doing and the reasons for choosing to do so did stem from the aftermath of Tate's death.^note
- The ending implies that Rick's actions will project him to a higher level of Hollywood stardom. What might his career look like and how will it affect the film industry?
Fanon: Given how controversial his portrayal is, and that it is the only scene in the movie framed In-Universe as a memory, lots of viewers like to imagine that Bruce Lee's scene is Cliff's extremely biased or filtered imagination of what happened. The fact that in flashbacks to training Sharon how to fight for The Wrecking Crew, he appears to be a kind and helpful mentor, adds a lot of merit to this theory.
Genius Bonus:
- Rick is essentially a less forward-thinking version of Clint Eastwood, who after his big break on the Western series Rawhide ended did see the wisdom of doing Spaghetti Westerns, launching himself into a legendary movie career. Another parallel: both actors appeared in violent World War II movies (Where Eagles Dare for Clint, The 14 Fists of McCluskey for Rick).
- Alternately, Rick is an alternate Burt Reynolds. Like Rick, Reynolds worked for a long time in TV (appearing in 50 episodes of Gunsmoke and various guest spots) before moving on to junky B-movies mostly filmed overseas before he became a movie star with Deliverance. Indeed, the episode of The F.B.I. that Rick appears in has him replacing Reynolds in real life, while James Marsden was originally supposed to appear as Reynolds in the film before his role was cut.
- Rick Dalton's agent has him sign up to work with Sergio Corbucci, the "second-best" director of spaghetti westerns. Corbucci is a real figure, and the director of The Great Silence and the original Django westerns starring Franco Nero.
- In the climactic final sequence, one of the four Manson Family members gets cold feet and drives away, abandoning her co-conspirators. If you're well-versed in the details of the real Tate-LaBianca murders, this detail will seem a bit more meaningful. The woman who drives away is Linda Kasabian, who really did have second thoughts about her role in the murders. In Real Life, she tried to stop her co-conspirators after being asked to serve as a lookout, and later testified against them in court.
- The dumpster diving Manson Family girls sing a song written by Charles Manson: "Always Is Always Forever."
- Cliff's character as a stuntman alludes to Donald "Shorty" Shea, a former stuntman who worked at the film studios that became the Spahn Ranch. He worked as a bouncer for the Ranch when Manson and his Family occupied the place, and Manson eventually murdered him, personally (with a pipe according to one witness), on August 26, 1969. His body was dumped and not discovered until 1977.
- When Lee is talking about Joe Louis, he makes a point to clarify that he's not talking about "that white kickboxer asshole." This refers to Joe Lewis, a martial artist with whom Lee trained and would have cast in Way of the Dragon before they had a falling out and apparently never spoke again (although this would happen several years after the point the movie is set).
- The last shot of James "Jim" Stacy is him driving off on his motorcycle. Stacy's promising career would be derailed when he and his girlfriend were in a crash. Stacy's girlfriend died in the accident, while Stacy survived as a double amputee.
- Speaking of James Stacy, given what we know about him now, there's probably a reason Johnny Madrid and Trudy's character don't have any scenes together on the Lancer pilot.
- When Sharon is trying to convince the people at the movie theatre who she is, she looks a bit put out when she's told she's "the girl from Valley of the Dolls." Any Sharon Tate buffs will know that she hated both the film and the book it was based on, and only did the film knowing the book's bestseller status would make it profitable. She was also known for being very self-deprecating about her status as Ms. Fanservice, which is referenced when she clarifies that she plays "the one who ends up doing dirty movies."
- Another Valley of the Dolls one. When the ticket guy is running through the cast members, after Patty Duke, he says "the girl from Peyton Place" (meaning Barbara Parkins). At that time, Barbara Parkins was so popular, they were considering giving her a spin-off titled 'The Girl From Peyton Place'.
Harsher in Hindsight: The cover of MAD Rick has framed in his office, after the announcement of their severe reduction of new articles a few weeks before the film's release. At first, this was taken as a flat-out cancellation. A partial Defictionalization of this issue with that cover was one of the last fully original issues they did.
Hilarious in Hindsight:
- Margot Robbie plays Sharon Tate, whose character in Don't Make Waves (a poster of which can be seen at one point) inspired the Malibu Barbie doll. Four years later, Robbie would star as the titular doll herself in Barbie (2023).
- Mikey Madison would later play another deranged killer three years later in Scream (2022) in which, much like Susan Atkins in this film's continuity, she has a rather grisly encounter with fire at the hands of the protagonists (albeit not killed).
Ho Yay: In this article at TheMarySue.com, Mary Kay McBrayer argues that Rick and Cliff might be more than just Heterosexual Life-Partners. There's also the fact that Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio, both considered at various times to be "sexiest man alive" in The '90s and 2000s, really do have good chemistry in their interactions with each other throughout the movie. The narration describing Cliff as "more than a brother, less than a wife" only adds fuel to the fire.
It's the Same, Now It Sucks!: Tarantino does the exact same twist as Inglourious Basterds of the film's initial premise being set on a historical, real-life event, before turning out to be a more cathartic alternate history, except this time everyone suspected it was coming from the moment the subject matter was announced.
Just Here for Godzilla:
- Some viewers didn't care for the slow pace and meandering plot, but still gave high praise to the film's Signature Scene.
- A lot of viewers tune in just for Margot Robbie's performance as Sharon Tate.
Memetic Mutation: Rick Dalton pointing at his TV, representing whenever a reference, ranging from the subtle to the obvious, is spotted.
Moral Event Horizon: If you weren't aware of the fact that the hippies were members of the infamous Manson Family, Sadie gleefully suggesting that they make a hit on Rick just because he's an action actor is probably the last and biggest reminder that the hippies are the bad guys.
Narm: The wig Damian Lewis wears to play Steve McQueen looks so fake it can take you right out of the film.
Nausea Fuel:
- The scene at the Spahn Ranch is all kinds of repulsive. Not only do none of the Manson Family members look like they bathe on a regular basis, but the inside of the house where George and Squeaky reside is grimy and littered with garbage everywhere, and there's even a live rat in a glue trap. Squeaky's blunt admission that she "fucked [George's] brains out" does not help matters.
- The close up of Sadie's face after her nose gets smashed in by Cliff throwing a can of dog food at her during the climax, and later even more so after Rick torches her with his flamethrower, the aftermath of which is shown with a lingering closeup. Ouch! Likewise, there's also the shot of how Katie looks after she's been beaten to a bloody pulp by Cliff slamming her face repeatedly into every hard surface in the house.
Nightmare Fuel:
- Charles Manson's One-Scene Wonder. The way he glances over at Tate is enough to give you chills.
- Clifford's visit to the Manson Ranch is hands down the most disturbing scene in the film. It's straight out of a horror film.
- The gruesome deaths of Tex, Susan, and Patricia. Getting mauled by a dog is already horrific enough, but so is having your face smashed in on every nearby surface all across the room — apart from having a can of dog food embedded into your face, getting cut up by shards of glass as you crash through a glass back door, nearly drowning in a pool, and finally getting set ablaze.
- When Cliff asks to see George, Squeaky gives him a series of excuses why he can't see him. Her creepy expression, monotone voice, the state of George's house, and the way the other commune members stare at them make Cliff think something's very wrong. It turns out everything she said was 100% true, as George himself confirms when Cliff wakes him up.
One-Scene Wonder:
- Dakota Fanning as Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, who in Real Life attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford, is suitably terrifying in her single scene. She effortlessly establishes herself as the den mother of the Manson Family whose word is law, and she even unnerves the usually unflappable Cliff.
- Damian Lewis appears in one scene playing Steve McQueen, but absolutely nails his mannerisms and voice tone.
- There's also Zoë Bell's hilarious cameo as Janet — the wife who disapproves of Cliff being on set and orders him off after he puts a massive dent in her car while fighting with Bruce Lee. It's radically different from her normal Action Girl roles in Tarantino films (fitting for a stuntwoman) but also shows some pretty good comedy skills from her.
- Al Pacino makes a strong impression as Marvin Schwarz, where he giddily admits his love for Rick's B-movies and gives him a major dose of Brutal Honesty about how his faltering career, all while remaining utterly charming and polite.
- His big scene might be controversial, but Bruce Lee certainly is memorable, and Mike Moh gives a strong performance.
- Actor Aldo Ray appears in the novel in a Tear Jerker scene, already a tragic Jaded Washout as a legendary A-list actor slumming it in cheap exploitation movies, with the narration noting that despite how it seems, his life will get MUCH worse, to the point that this is actually a ''better'' part of his life. He shows some charm, and Hidden Depths in emphasizing with a closeted gay director, but also pitifully begs Cliff for a drink. Cliff pities Ray and complies.
- Rebecca Rittenhouse looks identical to the real life Michelle Phillips in her cameo at the Playboy Mansion. Couple that with Rachel Redleaf perfectly capturing Mama Cass's exuberance, and fans of the Mamas & the Papas can feel like they're almost watching a documentary.
Padding: This is a very long film, and fairly little happens in the way of actual plot. The Sharon Tate sequences in particular have been criticized for being barely related to the rest of the film, aside from providing Fanservice to those who have a thing for that era.
Retroactive Recognition:
- Maya Hawke has a small role as Flowerchild, and filmed this before she was cast as Robin in Season 3 of Stranger Things. Both came out around the same time.
- Victoria Pedretti was known for The Haunting of Hill House (2018), but she only played a supporting role in that. The second season of You was released a few months after this, and she became very recognisable after the second season of the former, in which she plays the lead role.
- Austin Butler shows up as Tex, the Manson family member who gets his Manson family member chewed off and face smashed in, three years before his Star-Making Role in Elvis.
Signature Scene: The night of August 9, 1969, the night that the Manson Family gets their ass handed to them by Cliff, his dog, and Rick.
They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
- Many reviews complain that Sharon Tate is reduced to a cardboard symbol of innocence who is a complete waste of Margot Robbie's talent, hardly ever even getting to speak. Robbie herself refuted this view, saying she quite enjoyed the challenge of having to do so much work with her facial expressions and body language rather than dialogue.
- Many of the One Scene Wonders mentioned above could have had their roles expanded, particularly Steve McQueen and Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme.
- The treatment of Bruce Lee is a sore spot for many viewers — considering it's not only offensive, it's outright inaccurate — and fans have taken to imagining it as Cliff having a Self-Serving Memory to explain why it's so out of character. Much more could have been done with Bruce, considering he's one of the only prominent minority celebrities portrayed in the film.
- Sharon's co-star in The Wrecking Crew Nancy Kwan is not featured either, beyond appearing in archive footage when Sharon sees the film. Given the discussions around Asian representation in Hollywood at the time, it could have been a nice way to shed an insight into how the industry was for minority celebrities in the late 60s.
They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Some viewers were disappointed that despite Tarantino rewriting history with the film's climax, Charles Manson isn't killed along with his cult members or at least shown to be brought to justice, which would have greatly increased the film's Catharsis Factor. Also, Tarantino's lack of acknowledgement of the LaBianca murders, which happened the night after the Tate killings and were led by Manson himself, makes the "Happy Ending" feel a bit off, since there's no indication that the LaBianca murders and other killings committed by the family after August 8 won't happen.
Unintentionally Sympathetic: We're supposed to bask in how awesome Cliff is when he beats the crap out of Clem Gorman. However, if you know the real life Gorman's story, you realize that the Mansons used him, essentially making him another one of their victims. This makes the physical abuse he endures a lot less cool than the movie tries to present it.
Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Cliff beating up Clem Grogan becomes quite a lot nastier if you know Grogan's real history: he was a mentally handicapped Spahn Ranch employee who the Manson Family manipulated with drugs after arriving on the ranch. Of course, Cliff would have no way of knowing that, but the film framing his beatdown on Grogan as a badass moment can be off-putting once you're familiar with his history.
Visual Effects of Awesome: The driving scenes in this movie? They didn't use greenscreen or rear projection. The actors were actually driving through parts of Los Angeles that were extensively modified to look just as they did in the '60s. The only time practical effects were used was in the scene where Cliff drives past a Drive-In Theater to get to his trailer, which utilized miniatures.

YMMV / Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

Edit Locked