Headscratchers: Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths
Owlman walks through Superwoman on the alternate universe theory, citing one planet where humans never evolved. Then towards the end, on earth prime, we are told that every human action splits off another world. Can you see the contradiction here? Why is fish world even a thing, if there are no human actions to change something?
Likely he just means that decisions as a whole alter things; no fish chose to go out of the water on that planet, ergo no humans. The bit about it being "human action" that changes everything is likely the result of Owlman's own hatred for humanity, combined with the fact that most alternates are changed by human choices.
Concurrent with the above trope I think it's pretty simple logic that the existence of realities is wholly determined by human thought. How would anything exist before humans of that were true?
The concept of an earth prime makes no sense. It's like one particular branch somehow holding the entire tree up.
or the Trunk...
It's the trunk. Only by virtue of the Multiverse it doesn't REALLY exist. The moment Owlman decided to travel there a second Earth Prime is created where he did not make the decision to go there.
That wouldn't create an earth, but even if it did, it wouldn't matter, because it wouldn't be Earth Prime. It would be extremely similar to Earth Prime, but it wouldn't be the same thing.
The thing is Owlman is mistaken. As was already mentioned the moment Owlman traveled to Earth Prime a different Earth was created where he didn't. More to the point he realizes that there are Earth's where humans never evolved and yet are somehow to blame for the problems. There is also the fact that we know in the DC Universe that humans, if not Earth is relatively young. Removing Earth and humans from the equation wouldn't have any effect on anything Martians, Kryptonians, Thanagarians etc,etc have done to shape the universe. Unless Earth Prime works via equal parts alternate dimensions and time travel like in Turtles Forever where apparently destroying the "source material" destroys everything that was built upon it retroactively.
Think of it as the trunk where Earth Prime sits unblemished. It will remain unaltered because any attempts to move from the branch to the trunk with just grow another branch.
Why is Alt!Chesire evil? Aren't villain and hero supposed to be reversed in Luthor's universe?
Actually that was Alt!Katana not Chesire.
It may also have been Alt!Lynx.
Either way, that's only the case in most instances, given Alt!Lobo's presence.
If every choice not made on Earth Prime sparks a new alternate Earth, then why weren't there dozens of Batmen and Owlmen fighting there in the end?
Doesn't fit with what we're shown. "Every choice" splits the world. Also, there are versions of Owlman that we would find quite pleasant.
Because when Owlman made the decision to go Earth Prime he created a second Earth Prime where he did not make that decision. By virtue of every decision we make creating two universes you really can't get to Earth Prime, certainly not without time travel to just go to the beginning.
Deciding not to go to Earth Prime wouldn't make another one. And even if it did, it wouldn't' be Earth PRIME.
Individual choices create new Earths. In the reality in which Owlman did not choose to try and kill everything, why would that make a new Earth Prime? It would just change how things worked out in that particular reality. Only changes to Earth Prime affect other universes, not the other way around.
Two ideas here. Firstly, who's to say the universe Owlman and Batman ended up in was Earth Prime? There is no actual difference between Earth Owlman And Batman Fight and Earth Prime, so he just made a mistake. Alternate theory: the universe was specifically by a higher power (the great and powerful McDuffie, all hail his holy name) to be not so shoddily designed as to allow such an insignificant speck to ruin all his work. That pretty much covers all the bases.
Why did Good!Luthor not use the dimensional shifter to save himself and the Jester in the first scene, right after he had gotten the quantum trigger?
Because the two pursuers were too close. Jester had to buy some time for Luthor to properly escape.
But then when he actually uses it, the Justice Lords are right in front of him.
Are Lex Luthors predisposed to be evil or did Lex know about our Earth before coming here? If I was Lex Luthor and traveled to a new dimension I would have gone looking for my double and his hopefully still operating Justice League. Instead he walks into the police department knowing that they'd recognize him and recognize him as an A class villian so the easiest way to get Superman (who back home is evil) is to threaten world domination. He had to have known the situation prior to showing up.
No, he walks into the police station to contact the Justice League, but the cops pull guns on him and react to him like he was a criminal, so he makes his 'threat' to ensure they call the League. Simple really.
He knew that his Luthor was a criminal and that the League were heroes already. Its obvious that he has learnt to spy on and spot the differences between his world and others, because Owlman, Superwoman and Batman themselves can do it. Unless Batman didn't know that Owlman and his planet-killing bomb would be going to a dead iceworld and is an asshole who didn't give a damn.
Why is it that, when comparing the differences between this movie and the DCAU, everyone mentions Green Lantern being different but not Aquaman?
Because overall Aquaman is a white guy who sometimes has a tan but a beard and hair length is not worth talking about. Green Lantern, on the other hand, is at least several human characters.
After seeing the reversed layout of Alt-Lex's organs, why is Superman's first conclusion that he's from another universe? Couldn't he easily be something more "mundane" like an imperfect clone or a shapeshifter?
Could a clone or a shapeshifter have reversed layouts?
Yes actually there was a shapeshifter that reversed everything in the people he copied. The reverse organ thing just proved that Alt-Luthor was a different person from normal Luthor.
How did Superman talk in space? Superman can't talk in space. He wasn't wearing a space suit, he wasn't wearing a breathing mask, and he certainly wasn't speaking telepathically!
Whether or not he can talk or breath in space really depends on the version of Superman depicted. In the DCAU, he can't breath in space and needs a space suit or breathing mask, in the comics, he's been shown to talk and even hold extended conversations with people while in space (The Supergirl Story arc of Superman/Batman comes to mind specifically).
Even if he doesn't need to breathe, though, there's no way for sound to travel in space.
Well then welcome to comic book logic. Hope you enjoy your stay.
I get that Superwoman is suppose to be a Mary Marvel Counterpart rather than Wonder Woman. But then why do we have Mary Mayhem?
According to the comments, the consensus is that the writer intended for Superwoman to be evil!Mary Marvel, but failed to make this intent completely known to the design team, resulting in goofs like that.
If Crime Syndicate is able to give superpowers to normal humans and turn them into made men, why does the Owlman have to rely on his Powerarmor?
Probably the same reason Batman never tries to get powers even though there are methods in the main DCU where he could get them. He doesn'tneed them.
Oh, but Owlman seems to need them, as he did create a power armor instead of standard suit. So why not real superpowers instead of superpowered suit?
The other reason why Batman doesn't go looking for superpower boosts first chance he gets as well; pride. Like Batman, Owlman prides himself on being a physically 'normal' human being who can nevertheless keep up with and even outclass godlike beings with superpowers. They just have different approaches; Batman trains himself to the peak of human physical perfection and relies on a few tools and gadgets but otherwise takes the minimalistic approach, while Owlman goes the power-armour approach.
Why is Deathstroke the president? Why did WB puss out on having a not named impersonator like someone looking like Osama Bin Laden? In the book it was Fidel Castro and I thought that was a great concept. Its a pg-13 movie, it feels dumbed down for the audience.
Using a real-world figure can date a work.
Point taken.
Also, using an established DC character instead of a real world figure is more appealing to some fans.
Furthermore, that makes him the second President Wilson. Geeks from all corners rejoice!
If every possible choice branches off... why isn't there ALSO a reality where Owlman's bomb, for one reason or another, did go off, thus killing everyone anyway?
Yup. But because at least one version of "Earth Prime" still exists, only the planet the bomb was on would actually be destroyed.
Because things that happen on Earth Prime affect the multiverse, things that happen in the multiverse do not affect Earth Prime.
According to Word Of God, if Owlman's plan was doomed from the start due to creating an alternate Earth Prime, what was the point in Batman even trying to stop him? It was a pointless Rule Of Cool battle with absolutely no threat to our own existence. And if both Batman and Owlman were smart enough to deduce that every choice we make creates an alternate Earth, why couldn't they work out that the choice to travel to Earth Prime or not, or detonating the bomb itself or not, would've created an alternate Earth Prime, rendering Owlman's pursuit for total destruction of everything pointless?
I haven't read the Word Of God and would like to. However Owlman's plan even if it was doomed to not end all of existence it would have ended every world born from the one where he made the decision to head back which presumably would have included his own where he came from and Batman's which is linked to that one. Also as smart as Batman/Owlman is it's possible they missed some detail in a complex or occasionally very simple plan.
If Owlman didn't realize that flaw in his plan, Batman probably wouldn't either.
So, one of the classic differences between the JLA and the Crime Syndicate is that the JLA doesn't kill, Syndicate does. But during the finale, Batman ties Owlman to the bomb before he sends it off, killing him.
Batman didn't kill Owlman, he just sent him to the ice planet and gave him a choice. Disarm the bomb and freeze/starve to death or let it go off and die. Although if Owlman IS resourceful as Batman he probably could have dismantled the bomb and built a way off the ice planet or some other such thing.
Owlman says that the multiverse consists of every possible universe where every possible choice was taken. So wouldn't there be a combination of universes where Batman was unable to stop Owlman, causing the multiverse to end no matter what?
Not necessarily. Owlman obviously believes this is so, but his theory was not conclusively proven as true. We see a myriad of possibilities, but no proof that every possibility is incarnate in this multiverse beyond his word.
Word Of God says that Owlman's plan was doomed from the start because as soon as any free-will choice occurs on Earth-Prime, it splits off two Earth-Not-Quite-Primes where the possible choices play out, leaving the actual Cosmic Keystone world undisturbed. Something like this has to be the case. If Earth Prime remained unique, then every possible Owlman with destructive intent would show up there at once. They would crush each other by their sheer mass.
Why wouldn't Owlman just abort the QED in the end, wait until he was fairly certain that Batman was off of Earth Prime, then go back and finish the job? Though it does make sense when you consider his Nietzsche Wannabe philosophy.
The dimensional shifter may not have had enough power to make the jump, especially with something as big as the QED, to which one might say that he was probably carrying a backup power cell (though Owlman isn't necessarily as Crazy-Prepared as Batman; in the comics he simply has a drug-fuelled enhanced intellect). Alternatively, he may have simply decided that doing nothing was no more or less valid a choice than doing something because it didn't matter.
There is another way of looking at it if you want to potentially give the writers more credit than they likely deserve in over thinking this. This was Earth Prime. Any Owlman from a vaguely similar Earth should have showed up there. Sure, some would have shown up on Earth Almost Primes, but still only Owlman and Batman showed up. This would imply only this Owlman made it this far. Drug fueled or natural, Owlman likely noticed this. He was the only variation that made it that far, that almost succeeded, a fluke. Then, he failed. He may have come to the conclusion that all other attempts were stopped somehow by providence/destiny/etc. He was stopped. Attempting to destroy Earth Prime is impossible.
Or, as he himself said at the end, it truly doesn't matter. According to Owlman's theory, it didn't matter if he chose not to stop the QED from going off—because at the instant he made that choice, that universe split into two, with him making the opposite choice on the other ice-world universe. If Owlman is right, it truly didn't matter if he died, because somewhere else, he didn't.
Apparently the only choices that matter in the multiverse are of humans on Earth?
All DC canon aside, The movie was about the multidimensional choices of the planet Earth. So for the Planet Earth, the choices on Earth matter. For example, If we take Martian Manhunter - there has to be an Earth were he never left Mars (for whatever reason), meaning there must be multidimensional Marses where x happens but y doesn't and etc etc.
Both "Earth Prime" and "Mars Prime" and every other world would basically occupy a "Universe Prime", which is probably another reason Owlman was doomed to fail- he is far too Earth-centric and human-centric to appreciate how complex the system he's trying to destroy really is. Given his intelligence, this is probably a sign of how insanely misanthropic he really is, even more than he appears to be.
When the Q.E.D. is armed, a window appears that says "Abort: Yes/No". I can guess what pressing "yes" does, but what does pressing "no" do, seeing as it's already on a timer?
It's there in case it was armed by mistake. If you armed it on purpose, then "no" is what you press.
Why would the destruction of Earth Prime have effected anything else? The explanation that we are given is that the universe functions more or less like a tree. (Work with me for a second) and that Earth Prime is either the seed or the roots and either way nothing else can exist without it but that doesn't really make sense (unless there is some time travel involved as well that simply isn't mentioned.) because what happens on Earth Prime should be no more important to what happens on Earth (whatever number this story takes place on) than say your parents or grand parents have on you. Sure they exist but killing them today won't wink you out of existence.
It doesn't make sense because you changed metaphors half-way through. Stay with the tree. Earth Prime is like the trunk—if you chop it down, the rest of the tree dies with it.
Owlman mentions that while he doesn't know how Earth Prime became a wasteland he does know that it was the fault of human choice. How exactly does that square with his idea that there are worlds where no fish was brave enough to crawl up out of the ocean and thus man never evolved? That seems to be a rather major hiccup in his philosophy.
Owlman is an omnicidal madman. They're not exactly known for the thoroughness and lucidity of their world views. He's just trying to justify his own actions, nothing more.
