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Jun 14th 2013 at 7:14:40 PM •••

How is Evanescence not Gothic Metal? Their lyrics are clearly trying to appeal to learning from dark aspects of life, and their music is clearly dark.

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Sep 12th 2016 at 8:40:19 PM •••

Not sure why this is being discussed in a post about goth, when metal and Evanescence have nothing to do with such.

Oct 20th 2012 at 7:10:24 PM •••

Just for clarification: The Addams Family are not Goth. The characters and the show have become icons in Goth culture, but the characters themselves are not Goth.

Sep 26th 2012 at 1:33:30 AM •••

Dear sight readers

I apologize if this has already been covered but I would like to request that Gazelene Membrane be put on this page under the western animation docket. She certainly meets the requirements of the lone psycho. I apologize if I have wasted your time.

Wholly yours The sikeokilla EWC

P.s. If you'd like to chew me out in private PM me on fanfiction.

Jul 13th 2012 at 12:56:35 PM •••

Shouldn't the bottom part of this be split into a useful notes page.

Jun 2nd 2012 at 1:10:28 AM •••

"[...}but one cannot be a goth unless they enjoy Gothic rock."

Excuse me, but no. This is wrong. This is like saying "one cannot be a Southerner unless they enjoy country music". Music is one end of it, yes, but I have a friend who would highly disagree with this (and no, it's not me- I'm not Goth). I dare you to email her and tell her- even though she has no idea this genre of music exists- that she's not Goth just because she doesn't listen to that brand of music. I know her favorite bands- Linkin Park, Metallica, t.A.T.u- and I know none of them are Goth.

From what I understand, there is much more to this as a lifestyle- to any lifestyle- than just the music you listen to. Music is a part of culture, but it's not the entire culture. She fits every other trait of Goth except for this one. She would be incensed, and I am incensed on her behalf. My personal connection with this through her is part of the reason I am upset, but also because I know in my heart that one qualifier does not make or break a subculture.

She doesn't listen to country either, as you noticed, does this mean she's not a Southerner despite being born in the South? Just because neither of us likes sports, does that make us both citizens of Canada? Of course not, and my arguments are a little dramatic, but they get my point across. I would like to see where it's written that one particular type of music creates your identity, especially one you've had for upwards ten years.

I've had other Goth friends before, and she fits in right along with them. She behaves exactly like them, speaks like them, holds the same virtues (art, self-depreciative humor, self-expression, individuality, liberty, creativity, what else am I forgetting), and holds them within herself as much as we hold our virtues in us, whatever they may be.

"It is very, very rare that you'll find a Goth who isn't very interested in creating their own art in some way (and some Goths will say that such a person couldn't really be Goth at all)."

This to me is what that last paragraph should be, not the untruth it currently is. Music is a part of the lifestyle, but it is not THE lifestyle. Also, it suggests that that is the only requirement- it suggests that a cheerleader type who has nothing else to do with Goth is one just because she enjoys the music. (This is also an exaggerated example, but you see where it's going.)

"Goth, to me, is a fluid thing- every Goth is their own type. They can fit into supertypes- vampiric, for instance- but each one from there is as different as black and white. Although there are things that can be said- most Goths do enjoy some type of rock, most hinge on individuality and not letting the populace tell you what SHOULD happen- each is unique. We all dress differently, we believe differently, we art differently, we nerd differently, we music differently... we just the whole thing differently, and we do it on purpose. We don't all dress in black, we aren't all Satanists, we don't all listen to the same bands... I do believe Goths have an ultimate goal, and that goal is to fit in our way, the way we want to fit in. The round peg does in fact fit in the square hole- it's the square peg that doesn't fit the round. We are circles among the squares, and that is all, Rigor. We. Are. Circles."~Suni

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Jun 2nd 2012 at 5:50:09 PM •••

Let me clear this up (which I should have done sooner):

Actually, no. I'm not angry. Simply, it didn't apply to me because I know who I am. Although still wrong (not anymore) and could possibly lead people without common sense to the wrong ideas (Rigor's Extending The Analogy above), I wasn't angry. At first, a little, before I realized I had no reason to be, mainly because I don't need to justify myself to anyone, and I don't need TV Tropes to validate me.

So I fixed it. XD And Rigor, do me a favor, my steed: How about don't do this no more, mmmkay? Appreciate the defence, but the ranting could have been done without. It wasn't personal. Chill, bro.

Jun 2nd 2012 at 6:42:49 PM •••

Ugh, she is completely correct. I apologize to everyone. I don't know what got into me. Then, as stated, I'm not even Goth myself. I have behaved inappropriately, and I am ashamed. Perhaps I should stick to the Wild Kratts page and not venture any farther, if I should be editing anything having to do with Wiki at all. Wikipedia rules don't apply here, but I broke pretty much every rule stated there, especially "assume good faith".

Maybe I need a Wiki break... or a whole internet break sounds better.

Apr 14th 2013 at 1:19:36 AM •••

Quite the contrary actually, Saying someone can't be goth without listening to gothic rock is like saying someone can't be a southerner if they don't live or aren't born in the south in the south. It's completely true.

Gothic rock, like other genres, is kind of like a dog whistle. The trick is, only people of the goth mindset, can actually hear it, or more specifically the beauty of it. To everyone else, it's merely a bunch of noise. Like I said in the page, it is the single truly uniting factor. If you don't hear the whistle, the beauty of gothic rock, then you obviously aren't of the goth mindset.

It serves as the most efficient way to weed out poseurs, as well as to find new goths. Like the tentacles of a portuguese man o war jellyfish, the music stretches out a long ways, finding prey that is susceptible to it's sting, and drawing them into it. (I do realize this is not the best analogy but its 2:50 in the morning and I'm quite sleep deprived).

In my case for example, it all started so innocently, a trailer for Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines back in 2004. I've always had a fondness for vampires(some kids wore towels around their necks pretending to be superman, I pretended to be a vampire...while playing outdoors:P), so I pursued it's website, and in one particular section of it, I found it, gothic rock, though I didn't know it at first. I was enraptured by the music, just a small bit of the game's soundtrack included on the website on a continuous loop, the song being the work of Daniel Ash, famed gothic rock guitarist for bands such as one of the originals, Bauhaus. I had to find it, like a sailor I had to find that wonderful siren song song, I was obsessed.

Eventually I found the song, though it would be years, and not before I found the rest of the goth subculture in the process. I had to discard every popular misconception about what goth is and isn't to find it, the truth of what it is, and in the process, even discovered the true nature of how screwed up our damnable little world is(blasted republicrats(that is not a typo)).

With that said, I will*sigh* fix this page again.

Edited by
Mar 21st 2012 at 2:10:58 PM •••

I want to signal that The Sisters of Mercy, even if they are generally considered "goth" and have in fact influenced some later goth bands, do not see themselves as such. Andrew Eldritch, the band's leader, has publicly dissociated the band itself from Goth culture. As a source I suggest to look wikpedia:

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May 22nd 2011 at 9:35:15 PM •••

Sym-BionicTitan: Kristin from Episode 12: The Ballad of Scary Mary, seems to fit right in. She's spooky but she doesn't bite.

Mar 28th 2011 at 5:43:28 PM •••

I've never seen a goth kid with facial hair. Connection? Perhaps.

Oct 5th 2010 at 6:18:10 PM •••

Yet another page describing what Goths are not. This Troper is curious to find out what a Goth actually is, but his google-fu is not strong enough to find out. All he can find are descriptions of what Goths are not, and it is getting quite frustrating. Can anyone clarify? Knowing what stereotypes are assosiated with a group of people without knowing anything about said group is pretty useless.

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Oct 5th 2010 at 6:37:24 PM •••

Well, the problem with the term is that it does encompass a lot. Most people, if you were to ask them what a Goth was, would say something along the lines of, "Someone who appreciates finding beauty and creativity in the darker sides of life, and is more open to new perspectives about typically 'sad' subjects."

It's safe to say that the Goth culture is almost purely art-driven. Goth music and art (visual art, not the general term) is the most obvious, but literature (this is the one time where you actually can blend the terms "goth" and "gothic - the Gothic authors are very popular in the community) and theatre play a big role as well. It is very, very rare that you'll find a Goth who isn't very interested in creating their own art in some way (and some Goths will say that such a person couldn't really be Goth at all).

The stereotype of the "anti-mainstream" Goth is, for the most part, pretty accurate. Goths don't like to limit themselves to one mindset, and (perhaps rightfully, perhaps not) feel that more popular ideals encourage a more close-minded way of life.

In a nutshell, Goths are typically open-minded, creative, art-loving people who look at 'darker' things their own way.

I hope this was helpful?

Dec 1st 2010 at 2:01:05 PM •••

As far as I can tell, all the goth stereotypes are correct, but are often depicted as comically out of whack. The difference seems to be one of degree rather than kind.

Nov 20th 2012 at 2:05:42 AM •••

As a cranky old goth, this entire article humiliates and appalls me. This needs SERIOUS editing.

Telcontar MOD
Nov 20th 2012 at 2:50:56 AM •••

Then do it. To make sure everyone's happy with the changes, you might want to create a sandbox or post the improved version here first.

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