Hi and thanks for your suggestion.
I've been looking through the listed characters both in 2D and 3D pages and, as for me, it's mostly okay. As I detailed on the Samurai Shodown page under the "Moveset Clone" entry, the games have dozens of cloned characters and alternate sides. It gets more complicated with the 3d games, but it's mostly clear:
- Half-Shaded Shiki is normal Shiki's "dark side" of sorts, so they are together. - Seishiro Kuki and Seishiro Kuno are different modes for the same character, so they are together. - Hanma and Karakuri Hanma are separate characters in-storyline. Contrast with the first Samurai Shodown 64, where both sides of Hanma are the same character. - Asura and Hanmen no Asura are, although less obvious, separate characters in-storyline.
However, there are three characters who are a little more complicated: Enja Kazuki, Suija Sogetsu and Makai Gaoh. - Enja Kazuki is Kazuki possessed by Enja: not truly one or another (And, to make things more complicated, with a vastly different moveset). Enja was introduced after Kazuki Enja. Since it's a "fusion" of sorts, I think that the correct option should be giving him a short description, remark the gameplay differences in the tropes and link to both Kazuki and Enja. I'd like to hear your approach. - Suija Sogetsu's situation is exactly the same as Enja Kazuki. - Makai Gaoh is some sort of "Alternate Universe" Gaoh, since he's the boss of a non-canon Dream Match game. Since his story is slightly different, I guess that makes him a different character.
Also, I'd like to discuss two further things:
- I think Warriors'Rage (Playstation)'s characters should have "Current residence" instead of "Origin" in their bio, as the game doesn't specify where they were born - see http://samuraianiv.snk-corp.co.jp/english/title/samurai-shodown7/index.php
for more info.
- Where should the new Samurai Shodown (2019) characters go? I mean, they're neither purely 2D or 3D (Keep in mind that 64-2 and Warriors' Rage are purely 2D games except for the sidestep).
1. I don't think that Demon Gaoh being from a dream match game really makes a difference. If it did, then technically every character in a dream match game would need a separate entry, because they're all technically different characters than the ones in the canon games.
Even if it's not canon, the character is still just Gaoh's powered up super saiyan form after absorbing a bunch of demon power.
If the Suija and Enja examples are basically fusions, then I'm okay with them having separate entries. Though, again, if the fusion is clearly just based on one specific character, who gets a few extra moves, and the other character with the demon sometimes talking in their ear, maybe that should still be merged with the original.
The one I'm curious about is Rera. Who, from her description, seems to just be a split personality of Nakoruru's that takes over her body sometimes. I don't think that counts as two separate characters. Like, they share the same body, and they're both different aspects of the same character's psyche.
2. "Origin" isn't really meant to literally mean, like, the place of their birth. It's just shorthand for the fighting game trope of "This is where this character hails from". Which can be where they were born, or it can be where they call home now, or it can be the evil organization they claim to belong to. It's more of a catch-all term.
3. I guess we've been putting them in 2D games so far, because 2019 is such a clear continuation/remake of the sprite-based games.
I'm not even sure if 2D vs. 3D was the clearest way to break up pages in the first place. If I was gonna redo it, I'd break them up more by release order. Like:
Page 1 - Sam Sho 1, 2, 3, 4
Page 2 - 64, Warriors Rage, 5
Page 3 - 6, Eo D
Page 4 - 2019 and hopefully, many future games...
Page 5 - Other: NP Cs and Spinoff games.
Edited by DarthEnderX When push comes to shove, you gotta do what you love, even if it's not a good idea.
I've been thinking about it and these are my conclusions:
1. Yeah, I wasn't really sure about Makai Gaoh even while I was writing it, I just thought they were separated in the character index. Nothing to add there.
As far as storyline goes, I think "Enja Kazuki" and "Suija Sogetsu" should fall under normal "Kazuki" and "Sogetsu". Enja and Suija fused to Kazuki and Sogetsu in SS 5's endings - therefore, both "Enja Kazuki" and "Suija Sogetsu" are examples of Demonic Possession. It's going to be interesting, because "Enja"/"Suija" and "Enja Kazuki"/"Suija Sogetsu" are going to share a lot of tropes.
Rera is complicated - as far as story goes, she's Nakoruru's dark side. However, in gameplay she's two different characters and in her ending she "fuses" with Nakoruru. I'd keep her separate for convenience's sake.
2. Ok, I understand. All right then!
3. No idea. Here's an idea on how to separate them: P1 - 2D SNK games (1, 2, 3, 4) P2 - 3D SNK games (64, 64-2, Warriors Rage PSX) P3 - 2D SNK Playmore games (5/5SP, 6) P4 - 3D SNK Playmore/SNK games (Sen, 2019)
Just wanted to put forth a brief discussion of how, like, alternate form versions of characters are handled on these character pages.
There seems to be a lot of "Evil Ryu"-type characters in Sam Sho, that I think fall into two separate categories.
A. Clones of characters that are actually separate entities from the original character that run around and are their own character, like Rasetsumaru.
B. Characters that are basically just a characters Super Saiyan form, that just happens to be selectable separately on the character select screen, like Half-Shaded Shiki.
I think these two things should be handled separately. I think that character in group A deserve their own separate character entries, but characters in group B should be rolled into the entry for the original character, as it's the same character, perhaps with a second clickable image for the character's 2nd form(the way Shiki's is currently).
Now, I haven't played much of the 3D Sam Sho games, so I don't really know which of these is which. But I notice we now have entries for characters like Enja Kazuki and Suija Sogetsu that literally just link back to the entries of the original characters. If those are just the original characters, but powered up, they don't need to have separate entries.
When push comes to shove, you gotta do what you love, even if it's not a good idea. Hide / Show Replies