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Gilphon
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NO. No, no, no. I\'ve written pages about why he\'s doesn\'t fit. Most people in this thread agree with me. When I brought this up on the forums, everyone there agreed with me. I really don\'t feel like arguing this anymore; so I\'ll just say the jist of it: He has crossed the MoralEventHorizon, yes. But CompleteMonster are a step beyond MoralEventhorizon crossers, which is all Sasuke is at the moment. If you want something more rigourous than that, read some of my rants above. I\'m sick of repeating myself.
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NO. No, no, no. I\\\'ve written pages about why he\\\'s doesn\\\'t fit. Most people in this thread agree with me. When I brought this up on the forums, everyone there agreed with me. I really don\\\'t feel like arguing this anymore; so I\\\'ll just say the jist of it: He has crossed the MoralEventHorizon, yes. But CompleteMonster are a step beyond MoralEventHorizon crossers, which is all Sasuke is at the moment. If you want something more rigourous than that, read some of my rants above. I\\\'m sick of repeating myself.
Edit: Because of a personal attack SuperSaiyaMan made on the CompleteMonster page, I feel the need to add this disclaimer: I do not like Sasuke as a character. There are some good ideas behind him, but he has not been written compellingly. And he is most certainly not morally clean, and is a throughly unpleasant person, to put it mildly. In short, I am in no way a Sasuke fanboy and resent the implication otherwise.
Edit: Because of a personal attack SuperSaiyaMan made on the CompleteMonster page, I feel the need to add this disclaimer: I do not like Sasuke as a character. There are some good ideas behind him, but he has not been written compellingly. And he is most certainly not morally clean, and is a throughly unpleasant person, to put it mildly. In short, I am in no way a Sasuke fanboy and resent the implication otherwise.
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This seemed to be getting a bit ThreadMode-y, so I tried to summarise it and moved the excess here.
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This seemed to be getting a bit ThreadMode-y -- in particular, we probably don\\\'t need the tangental discussion about which Beatle had the biggest ego -- so I tried to summarise it and moved the excess here.
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** It should be noted that hours of bootlegged studio chatter portray Yoko as very quiet during the \'\'Let It Be\'\' sessions. The \
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** It should be noted that hours of bootlegged studio chatter portray Yoko as very quiet during the \\\'\\\'Let It Be\\\'\\\' sessions. The \\\"group dynamic\\\" at this stage sounds a lot like Paul loudly telling the other three exactly what to do, then loudly claiming he doesn\\\'t care what they do.
** While she may not have been {{egregious}}, Yoko still had a role in John\\\'s distancing from the Beatles near the end of their run. John was distant as it was during their time as best mates, and Yoko\\\'s introduction led to him devoting himself almost entirely to her. Paul gets a lot of flak for \\\"trying to take over\\\", but at the time he had no choice. The band was collapsing in on itself and the band was drifting apart. John was devoted to Yoko, and George and Ringo were getting huge egos about themselves.
** To say nothing of the size of Paul\\\'s ego from the very beginning.
*** Paul\\\'s ego was later dwarfed by the egos that George(though George does deserve an ego, to an extent) and Ringo(it boggles this troper\\\'s mind how Ringo suddenly thought he was \\\"the shit\\\") grew.
** An extra complication would have been, that Yoko Ono was a performance artist, whose pieces were all but incomprehensible to a sixties, western public. And that she \\\"sung\\\" in a jarring, weird and nonconformistic manner.
** The other Beatles have since admitted that Yoko probably doesn\\\'t deserve all the blame she receives for breaking up the Beatles, and that the eventual meltdown was more a combination of the band members naturally growing apart personality-and-interest wise, tiring a bit of each other\\\'s company after so many years of almost enforced closeness, and being threatened by and irritated at Yoko\\\'s increased presence where previously recordings had been \\\'no girlfriends\\\' territory. She was reportedly not the easiest person to get along with, however, and made little effort to actually endear herself to them, which probably affected matters as well.
** It should also be noted that there was more than a hint of racism in some of this blame as well; in 1960s Britain, wounds from the SecondWorldWar were still raw, and even discounting this, attitudes towards Asians were not at their most enlightened.
***John and Yoko once expressed surprised pleasure when some female fans gave Yoko a bouquet of roses. They didn\\\'t realize at first that they still had the thorns on and that it was significant that they were [[UnfortunateImplications yellow]].
** There was also a hint of moral outrage unrelated to race. John was still married to Cynthia (albeit separated) when he began living with Yoko. At the time, most people, even social liberals, didn\\\'t believe that being separated gave the parties the freedom to date, let alone enter into new relationships.
** A rather common BlackComedy joke about this: \\\"How do you know Mark David Chapman was insane? Yoko was \\\'\\\'\\\'right there\\\'\\\'\\\'!\\\"
*** DenisLeary has piled on here. \\\"JohnLennon takes \\\'\\\'six\\\'\\\' bullets to the chest; Yoko Ono\\\'s standing right next to him, and \\\'\\\'not \\\'\\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\'\\\' fuckin\\\' bullet!!!\\\'\\\' Explain that to me!\\\"
****Yet [[DeadBabyComedy another one]] goes: What did Yoko say when John was shot? \\\"[[IncrediblyLamePun Oh]], [[DudeNotFunny No]]!\\\"
***** The guys at Harmonix [[http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/15/the-beatles-rock-band-execs-say-yoko-ono-gave-the-designers-he/ got a taste of Yoko Ono]] themselves.
** While she may not have been {{egregious}}, Yoko still had a role in John\\\'s distancing from the Beatles near the end of their run. John was distant as it was during their time as best mates, and Yoko\\\'s introduction led to him devoting himself almost entirely to her. Paul gets a lot of flak for \\\"trying to take over\\\", but at the time he had no choice. The band was collapsing in on itself and the band was drifting apart. John was devoted to Yoko, and George and Ringo were getting huge egos about themselves.
** To say nothing of the size of Paul\\\'s ego from the very beginning.
*** Paul\\\'s ego was later dwarfed by the egos that George(though George does deserve an ego, to an extent) and Ringo(it boggles this troper\\\'s mind how Ringo suddenly thought he was \\\"the shit\\\") grew.
** An extra complication would have been, that Yoko Ono was a performance artist, whose pieces were all but incomprehensible to a sixties, western public. And that she \\\"sung\\\" in a jarring, weird and nonconformistic manner.
** The other Beatles have since admitted that Yoko probably doesn\\\'t deserve all the blame she receives for breaking up the Beatles, and that the eventual meltdown was more a combination of the band members naturally growing apart personality-and-interest wise, tiring a bit of each other\\\'s company after so many years of almost enforced closeness, and being threatened by and irritated at Yoko\\\'s increased presence where previously recordings had been \\\'no girlfriends\\\' territory. She was reportedly not the easiest person to get along with, however, and made little effort to actually endear herself to them, which probably affected matters as well.
** It should also be noted that there was more than a hint of racism in some of this blame as well; in 1960s Britain, wounds from the SecondWorldWar were still raw, and even discounting this, attitudes towards Asians were not at their most enlightened.
***John and Yoko once expressed surprised pleasure when some female fans gave Yoko a bouquet of roses. They didn\\\'t realize at first that they still had the thorns on and that it was significant that they were [[UnfortunateImplications yellow]].
** There was also a hint of moral outrage unrelated to race. John was still married to Cynthia (albeit separated) when he began living with Yoko. At the time, most people, even social liberals, didn\\\'t believe that being separated gave the parties the freedom to date, let alone enter into new relationships.
** A rather common BlackComedy joke about this: \\\"How do you know Mark David Chapman was insane? Yoko was \\\'\\\'\\\'right there\\\'\\\'\\\'!\\\"
*** DenisLeary has piled on here. \\\"JohnLennon takes \\\'\\\'six\\\'\\\' bullets to the chest; Yoko Ono\\\'s standing right next to him, and \\\'\\\'not \\\'\\\'\\\'one\\\'\\\'\\\' fuckin\\\' bullet!!!\\\'\\\' Explain that to me!\\\"
****Yet [[DeadBabyComedy another one]] goes: What did Yoko say when John was shot? \\\"[[IncrediblyLamePun Oh]], [[DudeNotFunny No]]!\\\"
***** The guys at Harmonix [[http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/15/the-beatles-rock-band-execs-say-yoko-ono-gave-the-designers-he/ got a taste of Yoko Ono]] themselves.
