Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

I'll be honest I have a hard time figuring out what's going on in some of Araki's panels. On a quick read I thought it was November Rain ripping the bus apart - I neglected the fire in those panels yes.

Nothing I've read so far has made me want to stop reading the story or criticize how Araki tells it.

Though Jojo being a "celebration of humanity" falls a little flat when there's so many examples of random humans just being complete s———s in this setting.

Edited by FOFD on Mar 18th 2024 at 10:51:44 AM

The context of that quote matters. Araki's point was that Jojo is about human determination, whether they are good or bad.

Araki: To not negate human beings. What I mean by that is is to have positive thinking characters that don't stress about things going wrong. They're not allowed to stress. They believe strongly in what they do. Even if its a bad guy doing bad things, those actions are very important to him and he'll use that to move one step forward. Then in response, the hero comes to defeat that. When they both step out forwards they'll then conflict. That's what I find interesting. I don't think it's interesting as a Shonen manga if the hero feels some sort of empathy for the villain. For example, with the character Yoshikage Kira, he's a serial killer but I think that he had his own proper reasons for doing so, such as the poor environment of his childhood, his relationship with his mother and his father always ignoring him. But if I write that you start to feel sorry for Kira, and so despite being such a horrible villain, when Josuke fights him, I think he'll kind of feel sorry for him. But then Kira says that he's fine being that way and moves one step up. That's what I like. That's the reason why I really like Kira. Although he may have had a bad childhood and turned into a serial killer, I always hope that he tries his best at being one. I can't really say that out loud much though. I'm secretly a fan of his. So living with a positive outlook like that is the theme of Jo Jo. It's a celebration of humanity. To make humans positive. There may be conflicts because of that but that sort of thing is a theme.

Araki's idea of a good story is one where both heroes and villains fight for what they believe and don't let anything get in their way of that. It's a clash of radically different ideals. There might be some sympathy there, but that doesn't stop them.

"Humanity" in this context isn't only our positive traits, but rather that basic stubborn willpower that drives us all.

Edited by M84 on Mar 18th 2024 at 11:00:39 PM

EDIT: Welp there were multiple posts that happened while I typed this and I think that the post I was replying to was edited as well.

This reply is in the context of Jodio's punishment of Dragona's entire class.

Except, a bunch of those kids absolutely didn't deserve it. Sure, they were a little shitty to Dragona, but not so extraordinarily so that they deserved to potentially die or be scarred for life because of it. It's a moment of catharsis, sure, but it also shows how kinda fucked up Jodio actually is. He could've specifically targeted just the bully group. The 'absurd' event is absolutely meant to be viewed as karmic retribution; Dragona is simply in denial about it because Jodio stopped them from personally falling into despair.

It might never really come up again, narratively. That being said I wouldn't be surprised if Jodio crosses a line at some point in this story that will ruin the lives of multiple characters around him, especially if it's in defense of Dragona.

Edited by Grahf on Mar 18th 2024 at 11:00:03 AM

Yeah, Araki really hasn't done a straightforward heroic and moral protagonist since Phantom Blood, has he. Jojo protagonists are all over the place when it comes to morality.

Edited by M84 on Mar 18th 2024 at 11:03:04 PM

Really? I think apart from Jodio that pretty much every other Jojo has been played pretty straight. Hell, even Giorno who wants to be a literal mob boss also wishes to use that power to make sure that the mob doesn't push drugs on people and things like that. He seems to want a Romanticized version of the mafia where they're criminals yes but with strict adherence to codes of conduct and honour that look to help the average person rather than harm them.

I think the idea is that the other kids weren't stopping it, some even participating by holding Dragona or snickering as it occurred, and also that Jodio has the morality of a checkerboard.

Nah

• Joseph is best friends with a dude who is chill with cough cough German soldiers cough. He later hooks up with a Japanese college student while he was marries.
• Jotaro called his mom a bitch.
• Josuke has caused property damage over a petty insult.
• Giorno is a thief.
• Jolyne is nicer but stilk a vindictive person.
• Johnny is Johnny.
• Gappy might be nicer than the rest id you excuse him of his previous selve's crimes, but he wasn't afraid to go for the throat or beat the sh-t out of someone to get answers.

Edited by FOFD on Mar 18th 2024 at 11:09:39 AM

Nope, none of them have been really straightforward good guys the way Jonathan Joestar was. The closest after him was Josuke in Part IV.

Jodio however is probably the closest to an actual Villain Protagonist.

Edited by M84 on Mar 18th 2024 at 11:17:48 PM

Well, sure, but Jonathan is practically a saint. It's not like any of the other Joestars are bad people: brasher than him? Absolutely, but still good people at their cores. Johnny is probably the one that takes the longest to come around to it; he's arguably one of the more selfish protagonists we've ever seen out of Araki but he's hardly a bad guy by any measure.

None of the others are ever at Jonathan's level, but the rest are only sketchy in relatively benign ways aside from Giorno becoming a mafioso, Jolyne getting into criminal activities so her dad would pay attention to her, and Johnny's whole... everything.

I think best friends might be overselling a relationship that lasted about a month before he died. At best, they had a mutual respect for one another due to their lineages.

Something I like about Jojo is that the world has nuance, but the plot tends to be more black and white, if you know what I mean. Like, people are people and might have complex motivations, but the main story has a villain doing something that needs to be stopped, and the heroes will stop them and try their best to minimize collateral damage in the process. It allows you to have both a believable world and something you can unambiguously root for.

This has gotten a little muddier since Part 7, but it's generally a style of the series.

I was nervous about Part 9 at the start because I was worried it might seriously break that trend, but the further we get, the more I think it might end up doing it in a different way.

It ties into what Araki said in that bit I posted. JJBA is about heroes and villains with their own beliefs clashing over those beliefs.

Interesting how Jojolands is setting up a dichotomy of Dragona believing in "absurdity" as opposed to Jodio's trust in a "mechanism".

Dark chapter, but I liked seeing Jodio and Dragona's backstory. I was right that Dragona's gender is continuing to be a plot element that Araki focuses on, and I don't think this is the end of it either. Also good to show that women can be sexual assaulters, just on a surface level, there are still lots of people who don't believe that.

I got the understanding from how that girl treated Dragona that Dragona always had feminine/crossdressing tendencies and that was what the girl was bullying them about.

T He siblings' father may or may not have Brando ancestry, but with how mundane he is, at this point I'm guessing he isn't, and that from how mundane he came across the Dio-like traits of Jodio are firmly spiritual in nature. Though Jodio does seem to still have some element of altruism to his code compared to the more libertine Dio, wherein Dragona and his mother's wellbeing takes priority above everything else.

Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 19th 2024 at 3:13:31 AM

Dragona did say that what Jodio did wasn't necessarily good or bad. It was kind to his sibling, but it also hurt innocent people. But no-one died, and it punished a horrible bully who was abusing her family's authority. But the consequences had far-reaching effects that led to Jodio's father leaving. And that led to Meryl recruiting them. It was a very impactful thing he did, with far-reaching effects on his own life, even though he tried to not be connected to it.

On an unrelated subject, super funny that Meryl, as the school principal, has a little song for turning off your cell phone that all of her students know and join in on.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Mar 19th 2024 at 3:48:49 AM

The company is called Howler and there is a King Crimson song named "The Howler". We might have some more part 5 parralels coming up.

In any case a corporation buying up land seems like a rather appropriate villain faction for a story set in Hawaii.

Why's that?

Hawaii was colonized.

Holy shit Jodio, that's dark. He clearly isn't right on the head.

I'm just curious whether the one kid that tried to defend Dragona will be relevant in the future. He gets oddly focused on in panels of the arson scene, even more than the bully.

Maybe.

I'm curious as to whether there's gonna be a moment where Jodio's willingness to do anything to protect his family, no matter who else gets hurt will clash with someone who's only crime is wrong place, wrong time, and if Araki will have Jodio Kick the Dog and do something cruel to someone who very much doesn't deserve it.

Like, you make someone that sociopathic, and eventually a moment like that will happen.

We almost had that with Charmingman.

That's what I think is going to happen at some point. That Jodio will lash out at someone that seemed to be harming Dragona, only for it to be a misunderstanding. Or for him to to come into conflict with one of the characters preexisting goals like Meryl's interest in trying to get as much money as she can, or Charmingman's search for his brother, simply because to Jodio has made it to a point where those goals no longer align with his.

I get why everyone seems to be predicting a "Jodio and Dragona fight and the team breaks up" event at some point, but I don't really see it happening, myself. It doesn't feel like Jodio's arc is going to put him in conflict with Dragona, to me.

To clarify, I don't think he'll necessarily come into conflict with Dragona. Really at the moment Dragona and his mother are probably the only two people in the world that he's completely loyal towards. I do however, see him capable of doing horrifying things to keep both/either of them safe and happy. Hell, the narrative has already obviously established that. I would think if anything that Dragona would probably once again justify Jodio's actions when people inevitably pull a "What the hell was that." if he were to cross a line.

Right now the only real avenue I see that could lead to sibling conflict is if Dragona is intensely loyal to Meryl Mei. I could see if Jodio becomes convinced that he'll have to step over Meryl or otherwise betray her to advance himself that he'd have no issue with doing so, while Dragona might feel that the pair of them owe Meryl.

Edited by Grahf on Mar 19th 2024 at 11:18:49 AM