Kingdom Hearts

Yeah no fake kingdom hearts isn't even mentionned in 3d outside of the recap logs. Xemnas's lines are about most of the original members being inadequate laughs in KHIII

It's still true. Like Vexen and Demyx have no use as vessels and Xehanort was desperately trying to find someone to replace them because they suck!

It's kinda funny that even when he norts the ones he doesn't consider worthy he still doesn't want them.

Xigbar straight up says it...

In context you can tell he is talking of Xemnas's artificial Kingdom Hearts since that is the only one they have access to since the whole point of the excersize is to get thirteen versions of himself for the X-Blade and original recipe Kingdom Hearts.

Edited by lycropath on Apr 13th 2019 at 10:04:30 AM

I mean, the plan was definitely to give them all copies of Xehanort's heart, and the point of the fake Kingdom Hearts was 'give the organization members hearts', so, y'know, 2+2=4.

And, like, they didn't have the yellow eyes that used in III as the short-handed for 'has been Norted now'.

But then MX gets recompleted and he can just directly create copies of his Heart instead of bothered to go through all the trouble with Fake Kingdom Hearts, so he just does the work.

Edited by Gilphon on Apr 13th 2019 at 1:07:09 PM

Then they went back in time and Norted them anyways since they're all Time Travelers.

No, they found their humans selves after they were recompleted, re-Nobodied them, and Norted them at that point since then they have MX in play. The Nobodies in the new Org aren't time Travellers (Except Xenmas).

This reveal in turn creates the interesting implication that even if all the original vessels had panned out, one of them would've gotten the axe no matter what so Master X could take the #1 spot. Maybe two, to make room for Fake Ansem.

Time Travel was involved because that's how Vexen disappeared from the nearby room, becoming a Nobody willingly and going back in time to be a Nort, but I thought that was just him.

I mean, given how he acts in III, it makes perfect sense to me that Xehanort would aim for more than he needed. Like, just bench Demyx if needs to, like he actually ended up doing.

Edited by Gilphon on Apr 13th 2019 at 1:16:32 PM

The time travelers according to the Ultimania are Xemnas, Ansem, Repliku, Terranort, Xion and (maybe) Vanitas. The rest where just taken from the current time.

According to his report, Vexen disappeared on his own volition for a walk in the square and then Saix offered him the opportunity to stick it to Xehanort and he took it. No time travel was involved.

Edited by lycropath on Apr 13th 2019 at 10:14:36 AM

Where did you get the idea that Vexen time travelled? Like, he clearly talks about Axel killing him as an event that happened in the past. He's pretty clearly just his present self, having chosen to become Vexen again and get Norted.

That he vanished suddenly from the room he was in like he hadn't been there, when bodies even after being separated from their hearts stay around for at least a few minutes as the DDD flashback showed.

Much like Ansem SOD lost using Guardian because Terranort had him instead and apparently Norts can't share no matter what time they come from.

Vexen didn't vanish or time travel though, he says straight up what happens in his report.

Man, he left a room during a moment when nobody else happened to be watching him. I sincerely don't have any idea why you'd jump to time travel as the only possible explanation for that.

Like, he was Nobodied and Norted willingly, so it's not they were forced to take his heart wherever they happened to find him. They got easily just go dark corridor somewhere secure for that.

I mean, we know they all did Time Travel at least once because most of them gathered to see Sora get Norted in DDD. And if we don't want to joke about how they were too lazy to make new models we could even say they just had Demyx and Vexen there until they get kicked out for their replacements.

Which is why my confusion stems from.

If I remember right, The World that Never Was took place in the current worldline. It wasn't asleep or backward in time, so all of the Xehanorts that where there could have gotten there the good old fashioned way.

Edited by lycropath on Apr 13th 2019 at 10:44:23 AM

No, I think OR is right that they all time travelled there for that scene; I seem to remember YX having a line to that effect. And, like, I'm pretty sure Vexen hadn't been Norted in the Present that point, Vanitas probably would've been mid-way through the whole 'reconstructing himself from scream energy' thing.

Which...

/does the math

Okay, it's not clear to be me if members 9-12 had been Norted at that point, but if they were, they would've been exactly 12 Norts hanging around in the present. But I am pretty sure that at least some of them Time Travel from somewhen else for that scene, which why they all disappear and YX's like 'oh darn, I guess time's up' at the end of it, if I understand correctly.

I'm now imagining that MX stalled the final fight thrice with all those Heartless cause he was busy getting everyone to act their scenes in DDD.

Yeah they made it very clear they were meeting from across time for that single moment to Nort Sora as the Thirteenth. Then when time was up and they all had to leave MX went "Well I guess we'll dig around and find something in me old Nort chest for a Thirteenth by KH 3!"

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 14th 2019 at 2:04:19 AM

Is this a case of wasted a perfectly good plot? Or hype backlash?

Xehanort sure was committing to having some version of Sora in his 13, and equally committed to not being forced to use Demyx, wasn't he?

Like, I like Xion as much as the next guy, but from Xehanort's perspective, I find it hard to imagine that she was anything other a out-of-desperation, scraping-the-bottom-of-the-Sora-barrell seat filler, y'know? And I guess Vanitas wasn't Sora enough for his nebulous purposes?

I mean, she flipped sides in approximately no time flat, so I'm guessing that may be the reason. Though, I think Vanitas filled Sora's seat, in all likelyhood it was just Demyx he was trying to avoid having on the team.

Yeesh. Demyx being put in the org made nobody happy huh?

Headcanon: They never actually de-Norted Demyx, because when they explained to him that that process would involve shanking him and just kind of hoping that his Heartless had also been defeated, he noped right out of there. Which means that the only version of Xehanort that's still out there is the one that's eternally stuck in the passenger seat in Demyx's brain.

I can't tell whether I should feel sympathy or catharsis for the part of Xehanort in Demyx's head.