yeah, ra's al ghul was mentioned in this thread, in the early pages. i believe the conclusion was that he's not a CM? i personally consider him a Knight Templar at worst, since he always believed he was doing what was best for humanity, regardless of how extreme his actions were. and, (this may just be because he's played by liam neeson, i know) i got the feeling he really cared about bruce, and had high hopes in that bruce understood "what had to be done." so i wouldn't count him as a CM, at least personally.
what's the problem, exactly? someone updated the page to add him as a CM again?
Not the CM page, but he was added to the Batman Begins trope list before I created a YMMV section to move it to. Obviously whoever did so seems not to realize that CM mentions are usually not supposed to go on a work's trope list. (Though I think that maybe in special cases... if the CM status was obvious enough and their cruelty was a major enough theme of the work... I would suggest leaving the mention on the trope list and the explanation in YMMV.)
edited 25th Nov '10 8:35:48 AM by neoYTPism
...so you're not contesting al ghul's status as a CM, just the fact that he was put on the main BB page instead of the YMMV tab? am i getting this right?
when it comes to moving subjective tropes, i think the best way to go about it is to leave a commented line in the code of the work page where the trope used to be. that way, if someone sees that it's no longer there and wants to add it back, when they hit edit they'll find the line and realize site policy changed. like so:
%% the Complete Monster examples were moved to the YMMV tab, because the trope is labeled as subjective. please don't add them back here.but really, that's a matter for another thread. if al ghul's status as a CM is being contested, then that's what we discuss here. i wouldn't link to this thread to explain where the example is supposed to go, it might confuse people.
edited 25th Nov '10 9:10:41 AM by carla
You just move it to the YMMV page and leave an edit reason that subjectives should be on the YMMV page.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
I wouldn't either @ carla
The main reason I brought it up here WAS to contest his status as a CM. In light of the things you mentioned, I think I'll remove him from YMMV as well.
I know subjectives generally go in the YMMV page, but like I said earlier I think when said CM's cruelty is so major a theme in the movie, (and this obviously applies to The Joker)
I'd suggest having it both in YMMV and the trope list, because at some point the extreme of evil becomes more like a trope.
edited 25th Nov '10 1:11:29 PM by neoYTPism
Not Actually Indie
You were around when the trope was in YKTTW? Do you recall when that was? Not really. More than a year ago, but less than two, I think. I really don't remember more precisely than that.
...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
... anyone else recall when it was? o.o
I think when said CM's cruelty is so major a theme in the movie, (and this obviously applies to The Joker) I'd suggest having it both in YMMV and the trope list, because at some point the extreme of evil becomes more like a trope.it is a trope. just a subjective one.
i agree that the joker's cruelty is very much a central point of the second movie. the thing with leaving it on the main page, though, is that it might go down the slippery slope; editors learn by example, and leaving the trope on the main page for such a popular movie is a risk. a lot of people might go "oh, so it's alright to have Complete Monster on the main page after all!" and keep adding it to other work pages. better to be safe than sorry and just move it to YMMV altogether, no exceptions.
besides, the fact that cruelty is a central theme can be explained in the examples for other, non-subjective tropes, like Darker and Edgier and such.
Just do what? And according to what policy in what sense? o.o
EDIT: If you meant moving the CM mention to the YMMV section, I already did that. I just used this thread to mention the idea of whether or not Ra's al Ghul was a CM.
edited 24th Nov '10 5:45:41 PM by neoYTPism