Fallout: New Vegas

How is that a bad thing? They're tyrannical, slave driving rapists.

Pretty sure they're saying that makes them even more horrible, not that they'd be fine if not for that.

Yeah a while back I said that Caesar knowing sexism is bunk but still spreading it to the troops to keep them under control with sex slaves, doesn't absolve him of being sexist even if he respects a female Courier.

Being a bigot versus playing the part of a bigot for personal gain is a Distinction Without a Difference.

"No, no, you don't understand. I don't hate women at all. It's just necessary for me to enslave every woman alive for the sake of my empire."

Thing is, Caesar as a leader, is still spreading an ideology he himself knows is bull, to his troops and civilians. It makes him just slightly worse than if he actually believed in the shit he was peddling.

Worse part is, people defending the Legion actually argue that Caesar and his lieutenants not actually being sexist absolves them of the Legion's policies.

I said before this is a manipulation tactic by abusers, by making their target feel special and all, in this case, Female Courier. And you can see on the net, it's working on certain people.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 27th 2021 at 12:30:52 PM

Oh, sometimes I see people commenting that they dislike how "one dimensional" the Legion is and I must've assumed that's you were making a similar comment. Sorry.

This does make me kinda realize something. The creators have said that they regret not adding more of the Legion's non-military elements to the game as they seemed too evil without them. Ironically though, the Legion isn't really that far off from real life fascists groups in their sheer malice. At the time New Vegas was made people were generally more forgiving towards dictatorships due to the belief that they were "efficient" and "got things done" (which you can still see with the Legion) but this belief has soured with many people in recent years. Likely due to the U.S. having a wannabe dictator for president and showing people just how cruel and corrupt fascism actually is.

Edited by Kaiseror on Oct 27th 2021 at 11:32:45 AM

The Legion also got much more uncomfortable after ISIS came into existence.

also, you're interacting with the Legion on their front lines as an invading military presence trying to secure the region. you don't bring your civilian population, insofar as the Legion has such a thing, on something like that.

I recall that there was one merchant in their base, and he talks about how secure and easy it is to trade in Legion territory.

While surrounded by crucified corpses, slaves, and soldiers talking about wanting to torture and rape.

It kinda crosses the line twice.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Oct 27th 2021 at 12:35:30 PM

that's just privilege in action.

"Yeah, life is great! Hmm, enslaved women? I'm a man, why should I worry about that?"

That doesn't really mean Legion territory is that much safer, it just means that it's not the raiders that you have to worry about.

x6 For what it’s worth, I do recall seeing a quote from Sawyer saying that he didn’t really think the Legion needed to be more “grey”, as there are already three options of varying greyness already, and that Caesar was in many ways the embodiment of “war never changes”.

Edit: Ah, here it is.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Oct 27th 2021 at 12:50:07 PM

Last I checked, Mr. House is still incredibly popular and a "defensible" choice in this very thread. So, no, people still love dictators, just put them in a suit. The only thing gamers hate is lashing people to crosses instead of kicking the poor the into ditches to die of starvation. Cesar offends our modern liberal sensibilities in a way House doesn't but make no mistake, both want nothing more than to crush the opposition beneath their feet, one just goes about it in a way we see everyday so who cares.

Edited by Nikkolas on Oct 28th 2021 at 4:31:57 AM

House is better than the Legion. That is damning by faint praise of course — being better than a slaver rapist regime is not exactly hard — but he is still better.

House also gets away with it more because he remembers the bread and circuses part of being a dictator. Which, in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, is a really strong selling point if you can actually pull off the immortal dictatorship part.

He exists in the strange grey zone where real life morality and the absurd pessimism of his fictional environment conflict.

Edited by RainehDaze on Oct 28th 2021 at 12:52:20 PM

Given that House is responsible for the Gomorrah, isn't he still involved in slavery?

It is one of the things that makes him the darkest of the morally gray options. He is so nostalgic for Vegas that he recreated the seedy criminal underbelly with all that it entails.

Still not comparable to the Legion.

Edited by M84 on Oct 28th 2021 at 7:58:48 PM

Even he tightens the leash on the Gammorah when they step out of line and plan on attacking civilians.

Paying civilians though.

Still like we discussed way back, it’s pretty stupid House recreated actual gangsters in his New Vegas and is shocked when they plot against him and commit crimes.

At least he had the foresight to keep the white gloves under contract.

I've pointed out House's flaws many times because they apparently aren't obvious enough to people. A leader with no leadership ability is less than worthless. House's first choice for his #1 guy was Benny. His second choice was The Courier who betrays him in 75% of the endings. The Omertas are already turning against him and one meal will turn the entire White Gloves against him.

House doesn't understand how people work anymore, if he ever did. He is that fuckin' looney's brother after all. But the point is, if you're gonna lead people, you probably should know how to lead people, which requires instilling loyalty, and it's abundantly clear House cannot do this for the most part.

But hey, bread and circuses, promise space travel, and the nerds will flock to your banner and make you their glorious leader

Edited by Nikkolas on Oct 28th 2021 at 5:38:57 AM

People here are aware of his flaws as a leader and as a human being. We simply think none of these flaws make him worse than the Legion.

And really, you're name-calling now? Not cool.

Edited by M84 on Oct 28th 2021 at 8:40:31 PM

I'm pretty sure anybody debating a video game on a forum is liable to be called a nerd, including me.

Which makes it even worse that you're using it as a perjorative.

Just don't.

Edited by M84 on Oct 28th 2021 at 8:43:07 PM

House's problem is, IMHO, that he's got the same issue as Doctor Doom or [to a lesser extent] Tony Stark. He's the smartest man in the world but he's so aware of that he overestimates the ability of such to control the chaos of the world. House has these grandiose schemes that are 90% likely to work but that 10% is going to throw a wrench into all of his plans.

• Nuclear war happens like a day earlier than he planned.
• He recruits an incredibly intelligent and capable right hand—who seduces a woman who gives him a way to take over his digital army.
• Caesar somehow chooses his underground lair to build his fortress over.
• The next probable best man for being his The Dragon is likely going to be too good or too evil or too ambitious/capable themselves to stay in the role.

House could revive Vegas but he wants to RULE Vegas and doesn't accept that the nearly unlimited influence he could have as a genius immortal businessman/tycoon would be enough.

It's why House is the Neutral Karma Option.

A Good Karma Courier who works for House would probably be able to push back on most of his problems and House, himself, would probably appreciate it. He seems to think Idealism Is For Suckers and is genuinely surprised if you do the right thing and it works out.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 28th 2021 at 6:05:04 AM

So I broke into the Crimson Caravan safe for Cass' sidequest. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get through the Van Graff safe thanks to the security.

Now I'm just helping the Boomer with their Sogno di Volaire.