Why all the Karen Traviss hate?

Must have been on a budget.

To be fair, the Republic didn't fight the Seperatists with 3 million troopers throughtout the whole war; Kamino was still producing them. One episode of the CGI Clone Wars series mentions a new line of 5 million clones being deployed for the war. Keep in mind that the CGI series is T canon and has heavy involvement from Lucas himself.

Sony fan here.

Must have had a bigger budget.

But we know there were some regional forces to begin with. The Clones only popped up in the middle of their first movie, there was still Phantom Menace with the Naboo guards and the Gungans, and we see Padme protected by more guards during the attack at the beginning of Clones. So it's not like the clones were the entirety of the Republic's forces. They were, however, the most loyal group least beholden to anyone but the Republic's government, seeing as they had been created and born specifically for the Republic war effort.

More than 8.5 million Russian troops died in World War 2. I get the feeling that if one planet with an all-controlling dictator grabbed a bunch of ships and stormed Courascant, he could easily win

Speaking of which, where was Courascant's army? You'd think a planet with a population in the tens of billions could offer a few troops to help the clones fight against the guys who were kidnapping their leader and invading their planet. Where were the recruitment signs and stations? GOD WHY DOES THE MOVIE WITH SPACESHIPS AND LASERS MAKE NO SENSE? This is why being vague about numbers is usually a good thing.

Even with the planetary armies idea, the Separatists still have a massive numbers advantage (Judging by their rate of manufacturing) unless almost all of the key planets were pro-Republic.

EDIT: Also, the Naboo Guard is so pitiful that the Gungan army is superior. When the guys with hand-thrown weaponry and catapults are superior, you might want to rework your priorities and get a proper defense force.

edited 8th Apr '12 1:28:47 AM by Scardoll

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.

IIRC According to KT almost no one on Coruscant cared about the war at all and were of the opinion that the Jedi and Clones would take care of everything on their own.

edited 8th Apr '12 7:11:53 AM by doineedaname

And even they were losing, seeing as the only reason the Gungans didn't need to surrender was because of Anakin.

It's like Legend of Zelda, sadly. When the story is supposed to revolve around a single warrior making that big a difference, outside military forces lose any importance except for losing battles.

The Naboo Guard were a police-force, not a real militia, and if they were pathetic it was only through lack of numbers.

Basically, the entire PT is an example of how pacifistic cultures like Naboo will get their faces kicked in.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

The previous king of Naboo was trying to strengthen the military to be effective enough that groups like the Trade Federation couldn't do whatever they wanted to Naboo.

Then Darth Plagueis and Sidious murder him and arrange for Padme to be elected.

edited 8th Apr '12 4:24:38 PM by doineedaname

This is why you don't elect 14 year old bleeding heart pacfists to government.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

Padme is hardly a pacifist.

She is, and the stupidest kind, Depending on the Writer. In one episode of The Clone Wars, she campaigned to cut funding to the Grand Army in the middle of a galactic war.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

I distinctly recall her shooting people all the time.

Droids. Droids aren't people.

She's never actually shot a flesh-and-blood organic throughout the entire PT.

edited 8th Apr '12 11:30:31 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

This is the same lady who said:
"I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war."

Right after being informed that an invasion was likely. 14-year-olds really shouldn't be allowed to run for government.

edited 9th Apr '12 12:56:44 AM by MattII

Which was exactly what Darth Sidious wanted. An Unwitting Pawn to manipulate, and exploit in achieving a number of goals. I don't think she ever knew just how much she had been played!

So, refresh my memory, what did happen to the clone troopers after the Prequel Trilogy anyway? Some sources seem to say that they mostly died off and got replaced by stormtroopers, who were people recruited from various planets. On an interesting side note, the Imperial Security Bureau, a group of nutty hard-liners, preferred clone troopers over stormtroopers (perhaps because they're easier to control). But I think some sources did say that some clone troopers found a way to live past their age limits, and ended up with the Mandalorians. Am I wrong here?

Oh, Equestria, we stand on guard for thee!

A few did survive. The ones from Karen Traviss's novels anyway. Then they got an inferred holocaust at the end of Legacy of the Force.

After Kamino rebelled against the Empire Palpy decided that having a singular clone template might be a bad idea in the long run and introduced both alternate templates and recruited into the Stormtroopers (Vaders 501th being the sole "pure" Unit, according to some sorced)

"You can reply to this Message!"

Nobody except Obi-Wan kills any flesh and blood person. This statement implies everybody in Episode I is a pacifist. The droids are still enemy soldiers and she led a strike orce against them. Pacifists wouldn't fight at all, droids or not.

Her own security officer had just said they were no match for the droid armies. Its perfectly sensible to not do anything that will countless people killed in a war you can't win. Especially when they were under the impression that there was still a chance for Republic intervention.

Yeah, but OTOH, the war staring her in the face, the AFAIK original transcript is:

CAPT. PANAKA : Check the transmission generators...
BIBBLE : A malfunction?
CAPT. PANAKA : It could be the Federation jamming us. Your Highness.
BIBBLE : A communications disruption can only mean one thing. Invasion.
AMIDALA : Don't jump to conclusions, Governor. The Federation would not dare go that far.
CAPT. PANAKA : The Senate would revoke their trade franchise, and they'd be finished.
AMIDALA : We must continue to rely on negotiation.
BIBBLE : Negotiation? We've lost all communications!...and where atre the Chancellors Ambassadors? How can we negotiate? We must prepare to defend ourselves.
CAPT. PANAKA : This is a dangerous situation, Your Highness. Our security volunteers will be no match against a battle-hardened Federation army.
AMIDALA : I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war.

Right now, Biddle would be a better choice of leader than some twit of a girl who doesn't seem able to plan a worst-case-scenario. Now, yes, the Naboo guys are no match for the Feds, but getting out of the city and into a remote country location would be a start.

edited 10th Apr '12 5:11:58 AM by MattII

@Zephyr: To be fair to Padme, I think that was the same episode where she was lobbying her friend in the CIS parliament to sue for peace. You hardly need an army if you're at peace. Still demonstrates a large amount of overconfidence on her part, though.

Doesn't she also mention in that episode that the war is costing so much money that her assistants or something like that can barely afford basic necessities?

According to a FAQ on KT's websites she says that she based Mando society on the Celts. Who she says were far superior to the Roman Empire in every way(except for the French Celts who rolled over and let Rome control them), which I find unlikely since its KT saying it. Did anyone here pick that up when reading through her star wars novels? I sure didn't.

Having just finished Glassland I'd comment about all of the problems with that, like Mendez suddenly changing his mind about his actions with no prior foreshadowing in Ghosts of Onyx, but everything I could say about the book has already been said.

edited 11th Apr '12 4:39:36 PM by doineedaname

Padme could be considered arrogant at that point, not to mention that she was literally one of Palpatine's puppets that allowed him to get so much power in the first place, at least until the Revenge of the Sith, when it was too late.

In regards to all the Karen Traviss hate, I really like Republic Commandos, and this is one of the reasons: the viewpoint that it offers. It was a look at the Jedi Order from the viewpoint of the Mandalorians, which is a rather new one in comparison to the typical civilian or Jedi outlook on the Jedi Order. The funny thing is how there are Jedi that actually fit the mold that Traviss sees them through, like Jorus C'baoth from Timothy Khan's work, and even Pong Krell from The Clone Wars.

While Traviss might not like the Jedi that much, with her depiction of Mandalorians being the same as how people sometimes depict the Jedi in their works, she is still writing from the view point of the Mandalorians. The people who hate on her are the ones who do not take time to understand why the Mandalorians in her story have such a view point, even if she does take things a bit far. It is interesting to see the different viewpoints that characters have of organizations, and not just be fixed to the same viewpoint.

"On the Second Day, The Beast Awakens, With its single fang, It swallows the falling star"

Pong Krell was a rogue. Hell, Pong Krell was a Jedi in name only. Jorus C'baoth shouldn't even have existed. That character is a good reason why I don't like Timothy Zahn. The problem with Karen Traviss isn't just how one-sided her books were but the fact that she portrayed certain characters as bad just to confirm her viewpoint. When an author does this, it comes off as cheap. She's sort of like the female version of Orson Scott Card. That, and her Mandalorians were over-powered.

edited 16th Apr '12 4:34:33 PM by Stevron

Sony fan here.