Doom

To be fair, so do I, my fellow Slayer.

It is making me nuts tho G2, because there's a ghostly looking Night Sentinel figure with crown sitting on a throne shown in trailer as well!

What it all could mean, I have no idea but it's making me ravenous for new information. I feel like a starved madman circling my prey and making crazy sounds.

They're being such a tease and they know it.

Edited by Dhiruxide on Jun 15th 2019 at 10:13:49 AM

Double post but someone on reddit summed up points from an interview Shacknews had with Hugo Martin and Marty Stratton on DOOM Eternal.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/c117vc/hugo_and_marty_doom_eternal_interviews_by_shack/

And one more

So Heaven is gonna really get in Slayer's way... this does not look good.

Edited by Dhiruxide on Jun 15th 2019 at 10:48:00 AM

I don't really think Heaven per se is really gonna get in the Slayer's way. Sounds like to me that a rogue faction within Heaven wants to be rid of the Doom Slayer so that they can have their prophesized war against the demons.

With heaven there's a few ways they could go about it; they could make them a rogue faction (I find that a bit unlikely), they could go with them being evil, or they could make them hero antagonists that are either misguided or possibly trying to 'test' the Slayer in some manner (I did something like that in a D&D campaign; the heroes had to fight a ton of angels in order to grab a magic sword-which is what the angels wanted to).

I think the big issue with having an evil heaven is that the Doomslayer himself actually is quite possibly Not So Different from what I'd imagine such an organization's goals being. I suppose they could play that up, and have the angels appear as allies at first and then reveal something like "oh, and by blowing up Hell we'll destroy Earth as well" at which point the Slayer (to their surprise) decides not to work with them any more.

Personally I'd go the opposite route with them starting out as antagonists but eventually deciding to team up with The Slayer after some form of Defeat Equals Friendship. IE, have them show up and try to stop The Slayer from interfering in "their war" (possibly have them point out his Destructive Savior tendencies). Eventually, The Slayer storms the gates of heaven and kicks some ass, and after fighting some archangel or something, someone upstairs says "Oh, Crap!. Er, did I say stop interfering? I meant, uh, interfere all you want! And here, have an Unmaker"

I still wish people could stop tlaking like I don't like the game... when I love the game.

Seriously, just because I'm not as high on the Doom slayer as others are doesn't mean I think the game is garbage. No other game feels like Doom, so being told to just not play is obnoxious, because then I'd miss out on the excellent gameplay.

And no, the demons aren't interesting as CHARACTERS. I don't particularly want them to be. But I think they LOOK really cool and have great designs.

Edited by GNinja on Jun 15th 2019 at 4:52:44 PM

~GNinja, thank you for clarifying, but the way you describe yourself as "not as high on Doom Slayer as much as anyone else" might seem a little condescending to others.

~Protagonist506, so a Secret Test of Character might be a possibility, you mean? That makes sense. Previously he mostly dealt with demon incursions, but a full-scale invasion, even with the blessings he received from the Seraphim, and the wretch-forged armour would be a daunting task.

Nah, leave them be, they stated their thoughts. Oh yeah thanks for the edit at YMMV page! That thing was not BFG 10,000 and people kept forgetting that XD

Speaking of Seraphim, if they abandon DS, doesn't that mean his blessing would be taken away as well? That would not bode for Slayer... he'd crumble to dust because age would catch up with him or end up severely malnourished and dehydrated and with injuries all around. Even if he survives without blessing, he'd be put out of commission because everything would catch up with him and cripple him badly.

Unless he "stole" it or the blessing is one-way ticket, as in once granted it can't be taken away and it's stuck with him for as long as he exists.

I like your suggestions, Protagonist 506!

Edited by Dhiruxide on Jun 16th 2019 at 1:17:19 PM

Describing yourself as not being "high" on the DS compared to other fans is incredibly condescending to said fans.

FFS, are you seriously comparing their like of the character to a drug addiction?

You can criticize elements of a game without insulting other fans.

Edited by M84 on Jun 16th 2019 at 6:46:44 PM

What? I meant "My opinion on the character isn't as high as other people's" (referring to having a low or high opinion of something) That's what I always thought that expression meant. If it's supposed to be a reference to drug addiction then I apologize. I didn't mean it that way.

Edited by GNinja on Jun 16th 2019 at 11:55:06 AM

Well that's what being high on something means. It's a reference to the "high" that certain drugs induce in people.

I know it can mean that. But on other forums I go to I rarely see the term used in a condescending context, where the person is implying that a thing is like a drug and it's causing others to act stupid and uncritical. When I see it used it's referring to soemone not enjoying something as much as others do.

Seriously, I've never ever thought of it as a condescending phrase before.

are you saying I'm acting stupid and uncritical?

That is how I got the impression reading that part four times now.

Edited by Dhiruxide on Jun 16th 2019 at 2:10:22 PM

Is there something wrong with how I'm typing? Because I was specifically saying that I'm NOT using the phrase to imply that people are acting stupid and uncritical.

Edited by GNinja on Jun 16th 2019 at 12:13:12 PM

Oh... I guess my subconscious saw it as insulting and I forgot and intentionally skipped the part you rarely see the term used in a condescending context. My bad.

I will say this again on the supposed "issue" with Doom Slayer. Yes, demons are talking up DS's capabilities but that's because he's truly earned their respect and fear. He really is their boogeyman. And it's not just that, they've chronicled his rampage across Hell, driving them deeper and deeper and using everything they can to stop his rampage. And one last time: it's optional to listen/read those, so skip them if they bug you that much.

And I stand by my post if you want DS to be something he isn't, and to go against the core, the point of this game... you're barking up the wrong tree.

I never said you didn't enjoy it. I see it odd you're ragging on an important and deliberate part of the game and Doom Slayer.

If you're enjoying the game, cool and good, keep on ripping and tearing. I'm just confused/"not getting it" by your perception of how DS is treated.

Edited by Dhiruxide on Jun 16th 2019 at 2:22:39 PM

I guess this is similar to how I don't get Bayonetta or Dante sometimes. The games they come from can be challenging and fun and hard. But in the story, Dante and Bayonetta aren't really trying for a large portion of the game. So there's this disconnect in my head between how hard the gameplay can feel, and the power of the protagonist in the narrative. I get some of that with the doomslayer. I love the Bayonetta games, so it's not a game breaker or anything. But I do notice it.

It is admittedly difficult to understand how someone is a fan of the series when they spend multiple posts ripping on the characterization of the main character of said series. As opposed to discussing the parts they actually do enjoy.

It seems like you wished DS was more like a Soulsborne protagonist or something.

Edited by M84 on Jun 16th 2019 at 8:32:03 PM

I again feel G Ninja's gripes can be better applied to Doom 3, as the marine rookie you're playing as is slow and just a completely, 100% ordinary man that battles his way through demon hordes and defeats Cyberdemon, Hell's Mightiest Warrior.

He is worthy of wielding Soul Cube and has inexplicable resistance to demonic possession.

Whaaa? Nothing in game implies or has evidence he's someone holy. Oh and the protag of expansion pack causes second demonic invasion of Mars. smooth move bonehead.

At least for OG Doomguy, he is implied to die at the end of episode 1 and gets resurrected, which might make him abnormal.

Tho reading the post and thinking more about it, Gameplay and Story Segregation is in effect here. It's true gameplay can be challenging and Ultra-Nightmare is no joke but good practice, exploits and upgrades and game can hardly keep up with you.

There also could have been many, many, many times DS almost died on his demon slaying rampage in Hell before he got canned. Only to get back stronger... and if I remember right, he can draw strength from fallen foes. His praetor suit has all that stuff, when you glory kill/chainsaw demons they drop goodies for you.

Edited by Dhiruxide on Jun 16th 2019 at 2:50:10 PM

Well, the gameplay is damn fantastic. It looks amazing. The enemy design is awesome. It felt so fast and vibrant compared to many of its contemporaries back in 2016. It had great boss fights. It had a non-intrusive but still fun story. Doom Slayer is really expressive and well characterized for a mute first person character It had a good amount of backstory and lore, I was so happy to see the game had a bestiary with written entries on each monster. I go nuts for that shit.

Edited by GNinja on Jun 16th 2019 at 12:38:02 PM

The same. It's why I'm so hell(heheh)bent on learning every single thing in DOOM Eternal.

Lore must be cranked up to 11,000 .

And on plus side, it would give me excuse for some creative crossover fics

That said, imagine a DOOM AU with a Soulsborne Doom Slayer... that would be a cool concept, actually.

Edited by Dhiruxide on Jun 16th 2019 at 2:45:42 PM

One of the most interesting bits of DS's backstory is the implication that he was possibly a traitor who sold out his world to the demons in exchange for his son's resurrection, only to be screwed in the deal (because that's how demons roll).

That more than anything is why he's so angry. He is driven by hatred for the demons, hatred for himself, and unresolved grief over his son.

Edited by M84 on Jun 16th 2019 at 8:45:46 PM

I just thought it was because you have to be literally too angry if you want to not die.

There is nothing that implies that the Slayer and the Traitor are the same person

Its fan conjecture due to the fact that the Traitor is the only other person talked about by the Demons in the Slayer Testaments and He happens to be supposedly killed before the appearance of the Slayer

Who is only noted to be a Night sentinel due to wearing 'a crown' whether it means a literal crown or just the helmet who knows

IE the Betrayer is said to have been paid for his betrayal by his now demonized son... The Demons note the price for treachery is suffering and the betrayer was paid in full

Arguable The Traitor seems to be just a narrative device to explain how the Slayer's homeworld fell if there was an order of Sentinels as metal as Doom Slayer and empowered by the Elemental Wraiths You kinda need to explain how the Demons won that one if just one slayer is this much of a problem

I'm not saying that the Two can't be the same person... but I don't think the original game's intent was to make you think they were

since they kinda want to keep the idea that Slayer is the original Doom Guy 'Somehow'

I guess my big hope for Eternal is that we see the forces of hell (or heaven) try to enact more cunning ways of circumventing the Doom Slayer, like how they trapped him in the first place, but where we get to actually get to play through it.

It'd arguably be more poignant (as poignant as this series gets anyway) if DS was the Betrayer, especially since the demon who brokered the deal in the first place is set to appear in Doom Eternal.

Personally I think it's more likely that the Traitor is actually the Arch-vile.

Edited by M84 on Jun 16th 2019 at 9:15:21 PM