One Piece

It may be either a case of Early-Installment Weirdness, or relying a lot more on allies, but the structure of the Whitebeard Pirates seems much more limited compared to Kaido and Big Mom. Granted, it is much clearer how many pirates are under each division commander, but still. Considering how Whitebeard views his crew, it may have been intentional, but that is just a massive guess.

I'd say a little from column A and a little from column B, is the most likely answer.

What do you mean?

Both that at that point in time Oda hadn't completely figured out the scope of the Emperors and so Whitebeard's main crew of like 1,600 (or something like that) men sounded impressive at the time but now seems a bit off, and that it's more in character for Whitebeard to have way more big name allies willing to come to his aide at a moment's notice.

Big Mom and Kaido mainly command their crews with fear, Whitebeard commanded with genuine respect and admiration.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 15th 2018 at 2:12:08 PM

What do you mean with "limited"? That is simpler?

I dunno, I think, on a meta-level, that Oda still hadn't the exact details of how an emperor crew could work (though I think anyone can have a different structure), on an in-universe level, I'd say that we haven't seen much of the Whitebeard Pirates since we saw them and the allied crews only when ammassed together at Marineford.

Edit: yeah, just as you said XD

Speaking of allied crews, I've read a theory that says Big Mom and Kaido weren't member of the locks/rocks pirates but allied crews. This explain why Big Mom was a subordinate when she had founded the Big Mom Pirates when very young (and because she started giving birth at 18!)

Also, there's the possibility Rocks/Locks isn't the name of the pirates but of the captain, either way, I put my bet that the captain of this phantomatic crew is the "pirate with an eyepatch" Oda talked about

Edited by fishysaur on Jul 15th 2018 at 12:04:46 PM

When I say limited, I mean that their resources seem to be much lower compared to Kaido and Big Mom at least.

Whitebeard was always on his ship if I recall correctly, so that could be another reason why his main crew is the way it is. And to be fair, a few of the resources the other Yonkou have were gained after the war.

Edited by Kakuzan on Jul 15th 2018 at 3:11:09 PM

Ah ok, well this is like the other one said: Whitebeard was much more benevolent by the other two and didn't rule with fear but with genuine compassion, and didn't care much about becoming powerful or rich, he just wanted a family

Besides, knowing his backstory of a boy born in a poor country, just adds more depths to him

Well I did bring up that Whitebeard being how he is may have been a factor.

Anyway, I would love to see an arc dedicated to the happenings of 22 years ago. If an arc like that does come up, after Wano seems like a good place considering the trend of big arc then cooldown arc.

Possibly, either way we have at least two years of waiting, this arc is already large just by counting the almost certain characters!

However, the events of 22 years ago must be somehow tied with the events at Wano, I don't think Oda would randomly stop the narration for a (quite long) unrelated flashback.

In my opinion after Wano there is the aftermath of the Reverie, and, possibly, after that there is Elbaf (where we are going to meet the giant family with the D. <- Explanation of the origin of the D?)

Edited by fishysaur on Jul 15th 2018 at 12:24:09 PM

Some things Oda didn't plan from the beginning◊. The two most interesting to me are a) he came up with the Four Emperors concept before the Seven Warlords, and b) when he introduced the Supernovas he originally didn't intend all of them to be important; the idea being that some of them couldn't make it in the New World at all and would have dropped out during the timeskip.

I'm personally glad that he didn't just drop any of the Supernovas since I like the idea of them being major players in the new era. Out of everything, Oda coming up with the Yonkou before the Shichibukai is genuinely surprising considering how late they were introduced compared to the Warlords.

Edit: Kidd being an important character? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Edited by Kakuzan on Jul 15th 2018 at 7:51:44 AM

People always assume the more "Well Implemented" something was the earlier it was planned. I think sometimes it can be the opposite. Like a dear idea that you had earlier on but kind of comes accross clunky in light of other developments and or just doesnt make sense. Like the ending to How I Met Your Mother. Ok. Actually not like that. Like I have more solid examples but I cant remember them at the moment

I'm also of the "I'm glad he didn't drop any of the Supernovas" camp. I really like the clash between the Four Emperors and the Worst Generation.

×3

I feel like Kidd will be important at some point in the Kaido arc at least.

Edited by Cortez on Jul 15th 2018 at 9:03:59 AM

It's not his time to fully shine yet.

Well, I know Vivi being a princess was a last minute change (and a well played one, I'd say), but was surprised about Drum mountain becoming a tree was a latter thought too, it looked so made up to become a cherry tree, oh well.

Also, yes, I'm too surprised by the fact he thought the yonkos first and then the schichibukai (which I guess have been added when he said "fuck it, let's make this story 478498 years long!")

And I'm glad he didn't kill of half of the supernovas, it would've been a waste of interesting characters.

The one who does the One Piece report, in one of his reports, thinks that, in Whole Cake Island arc, the stuff post red-wedding is a last addition because there's even a scene where Luffy tells Big Mom that he's going to come back and kick her ass. He thinks Oda expanded the Arc because its purpose, aside giving Sanji a lot of spotlight, is to hype the four emperors and without the last part it looked like the Straw Hats had a too easy time infiltrating and escaping from Big Mom's land.

Also, yeah, I think Kidd will have an important role in this Arc. I admit I'm quite exited for Wano, le't see if it's as good as Dressrosa or Whole Cake Island

Edited by fishysaur on Jul 16th 2018 at 3:12:34 AM

I found this old video from the same guy who does the "One Piece report". He made it in the middle of Dressrosa's arc in response to those who complained about Arc Fatigue (therefore, I would've been a target at the time), and has recently reuploaded it.

It's very interesting and I suggest everyone to watch it (or at least, read my translation, since it's in Italian), especially if you think One Piece is slow or the arcs are dragged. It bluntly explains how this manga works. [Just in case, this guy has been reading One Piece since the volumes came in Italy in 2000, then he started reading the scans in 2004, so he's read One Piece for a long time]

In the folder (which has the translated title), there's the link and the translation (I tried to make it as accurate as I could)

Tell me what you think of the video, if you disagree with him or not (then again, it's an half troll-video), I admit I've found it very useful for when I'll reread One Piece

P.s. I know it can seem blunt (though he's not sour at all, as it could appear by just reading the text) but I hope the video doesn't offend anyone, I published here to discuss about it and the topic it brings

Edited by fishysaur on Jul 17th 2018 at 6:17:48 AM

The points you posted from the guy seem overly dismissive and misses the point I feel. Yeah, One Piece has always been slower paced, but the pacing has gotten even slower with the past few arcs.

And that still isn't an invulnerable shield to use as a deflection anyway since something having been a certain way does not mean it should stay that way. I'm also sure people have had these complaints for a while now, it is just coming more to the forefront. And that asinine "no true fan" thing is pretty eye rolling.

Edited by Kakuzan on Jul 17th 2018 at 8:47:43 AM

Well, honestly, we can't tell for sure if the pace has gotten slower unless we reread the arcs in their entirety

Personal experience: I've read One Piece and caught up at the end of Punk Hazard and, needless to say, I found Dressrosa really slow on the first weekly read, but after rereading some 30 chapters of the second half of the arc, I can say that it's actually fast-paced. I'm not kidding, try for yourself

I think he meant to say that the arcs in general look slow paced if read chapter by chapter every week, but if read volume by volume they're good (at least, reading in their entirety, I never felt it was slow). In short, they aren't slow paced, but very long (long is different than slow-paced) because a lot of stuff happen (and because Oda is no afraid to spend a chapter or more on worldbuilding that, on volume basis, doesn't slow down the narrative)

He never said "no true fan", just that the "average" fan (to him) doesn't read with the needed attention

P.s. In case someone thinks it, he's not a blind fanboy, as he has no problem with saying that he doesn't like an element or an entire chapter as seen in his reports

Well, longer is undenyable, I disagree with slow. Though trust me, Dressrosa is quite the opposite of slow paced (can't tell about whole cake island but I didn't find it slow on weekly chapter, so...)

Ironically, for me these are among One Piece's strong points, since it give the arcs more weight and, most of all, leave space for worldbuilding, so the series progresses on multiple directions and not just in linear faction

Edited by fishysaur on Jul 17th 2018 at 6:38:56 AM

Even read in bulk One Piece has always seemed longer and slower-paced than it should be much of the time to me in many parts, well before Dressrosa and Whole Cake Island.

Those are just the most notable examples. But I've never taken cries of "It's always been that way" as a valid defense because while I agree, I also think it's always been one of One Piece's weak points.

I don't need to trust you on it because I read it myself. Dressrosa was one of the most middling arcs there's been, largely because Oda was very clearly extending it out just to make it 100 chapters long. Even with the admittedly important things that resulted from it, it did not need to be as long as it was.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 17th 2018 at 8:44:00 AM

Response to something in a different thread:

How good a cook Sanji is and his philosophy on feeding people are already well established. Big Mom eating the cake didn't close the arc, and it's not why they were able to escape. More to the point, the entire chase and her going crazy were entirely unneeded.

If you actually wanted to add meaning to the cake and the chase though, and it would have been easy enough to do so, just make their escape actually predicate on it; have Sanji make it and then Big Mom consciously choose to let them go this once because of it, with the understanding that when she and the Straw Hats meet again, one side is going down.

And fishysaur, I know that the down arrow exists, but using it makes it harder to reply to your edits. It gives the impression you're not actually open to discussion and just want to get the last word in.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 17th 2018 at 9:12:48 AM

Well, I still haven't read the arc in its entirety, only a third of it and it looked pretty great so far, but still not in the position to contest the "middling" (and again, is matter of tastes). However, if you think about all the stuff it did, you would be surprised it lasted only 100 chapters. Though I agree that in the end he pulled stuff so the straw hat grand fleet could be formed in chapter 900

Just to make a list of stuff I remember:

• Defeat Doflamingo, one of the strongest shichibukai and his crew, and his fight was a continuous change of characters (from 2v2 to 1v2 to 2v2 again to 2vs1 to a final 1vs1)
• Doflamingo's story
• Meeting and getting to know the members of the straw hats grand fleet, which I suppose will be really important in the final arc (and I think some weren't even well presented)
• Law's story and Dressrosa's story
• Presenting the tontatta
• The destruction of the factory
• Kin'emon finding Kanjuro (which I actually didn't care much )
• Presenting a new admiral
• Sabo's comeback
• Showing a taste of Blackbeard's crew (though Burgess getting worfed by Sabo wasn't the best way at all)
• Some stuff that I probably don't remember

Then again, I haven't read it in its entirety, so don't need to reply to this, I'll start reread One Piece and I'll post here my thoughts of the arcs, so you can reply to these thoughts about Dressrosa (and any other arcs, I'm open to discussion ;) ), maybe I'll find it as great as the 30 chapters I've reread, maybe I'll find it middling just like you, or maybe even worse, I'll see

Edit Sorry about the down arrow, I just didn't want to add too many posts (and, in fairness, I didn't expect about the discussion going on for this long XD) and turn the thread into a discussion between us two

Though thank for having moved the discussion here, I was wondering if doing it

The arc didn't end with Big Mom eating the cake, but it was the climax (after that: !uick, le'ts get away from here! But not you Jinbe, you need to tease the readers and stay back to help your crew!)

Replying about the "unneded chase", if you think about it, this arc had the purpose to hype the fight against Kaido, since they really want to take him down unlike Lin Lin which was more a "retrieve Sanji and run", the arc could've easily ended without the chase scene, but this way it would've probably seemed they had a too easy time against an emperor.

One thing, while your idea looked good, Big Mom couldn't have allowed the straw hats to escape, since it woud've (and did) damage her reputation, even if she knew he would've come back

P.s. shouldn't we discuss with private messages? I mean, if a third one butts in ok, but since we're just us two

Edited by fishysaur on Jul 17th 2018 at 7:30:11 AM

The whole cake thing wasn't a terrible idea in theory, just a few things that made it come off as an afterthought. YMMV of course, but there were also a couple of annoyances that made some parts of the climax feel padded and/or repetitive, like the the whole dual personality thing with Pudding, and Big Mom screaming for a food that made it look like she was screaming for a certain type of substance.

I actually liked the Whole Cake Island arc much more than Dressrosa since I felt that Dressrosa was smelling its own flatulence with how it was paced. Even so, a few plot points were either wasted, or had very little payoff. And yeah, those plot points can still pay off later, but not eveything will get followed up on.

Thinking of Pudding, I wouldn't be surprised if the twist and her entire story was done the way it was because Oda thought having her be nice and forging a connection to her that way would be boring, and he wants their to be a connection for later when he explores the Three-eyed Tribe/the real fight against the Big Mom Pirates.

Which I can get, but the way he chose to try and make a genuine connection between them was very bad, IMO. And I'll take boring over just plain bad any day.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 17th 2018 at 11:32:46 AM

With points you mean the ones I listed about Dressrosa or simply Whole Cake Island plot points?

Edit: ops, didn't know what IMO meant

I'm not sure what Oda would do with the three eyes tribe, it looks like a sudden addition (and I was about to say it is, but then I remember we saw Pudding at the end of Fishman Island... well, a much later addition). Your idea looks possible, though I'm almost expecting her forming a Bid Bad Duumvirate with Kaido. Also, if this tribe can read the poigne griffe, wouldn't the world government send a Buster Call to their island?

P.s. yes, I think he made Pudding good to make a connection, though I didn't dislike it much, for me, it gave her some dephts. Still better handled than Smoothie (why it's her and not Oven the third sweet commander?)

Edited by fishysaur on Jul 17th 2018 at 9:13:19 AM