Neon Genesis Evangelion

Well, if we are speaking about really far-out Rebuild theories, then here is mine:

The ending to Rebuild reveals that the story is all old man Shinji recounting his original adventures to his grandchildren. He is exaggerating certain details, because the post-3rd Impact World is so utterly crazy that his story would be dismissed as unrealistic and boring in its groundedness if it was a straight retelling (you see, this is also subtext providing metacommentary on the state of modern anime). Also, he is still really traumatized by the events during the latter half of his piloting career (and realizes that they might be inappropriate for a younger audience) and is therefore trying to avoid talking about it, so he just makes stuff up.

I never understood the "who is better for Shinji, Asuka or Rei" debate. Granted I only watched teh anime once but my impression was that NOBODY was good for him. Everybody was using him. The one and only person who truly loved Shinji for Shinji was Kaworu. Because he's an alien and far more pure than any human ever could be.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jan 15th 2019 at 6:35:21 AM

I personally prefer going with the one true foursome route myself, but that's just me.

I assume that Rebuild 4 will consist of Misato, Asuka, and Mari taking on Gendo while Shinji and Rei Q take a time out and learn to love this weird, freaky world they've been dumped in. The climax consists of a big, dramatic action scene where WILLE prevents Gendo taking EVA-01 so Shinji can get in, have a good talk to Rei (and maybe Yui) and let them know the world doesn't depend on them and they have a chance to live their lives, so it's no big deal if they go out and attend a classical music concert or something.

Epilogue features Asuka and Mari getting married, Shinji finally working up the courage to ask Sakura on a date, Misato and Ritsuko gradually learning how to civilian (possibly with the help of Kaji), and the various Ayanami sisters gradually learning how to human (possibly with the help of their reconciled parents).

Edited by Iaculus on Jan 15th 2019 at 4:34:04 PM

@Iaculus: By that logic, if someone (Anno or a fan) makes a story where Shinji was created by Yui as an Artificial Human intended to serve as a Replacement Goldfish for her late husband Gendo, it would be the same as Rei Ayanami being born as a completely natural human (i.e. has biological parents, raised in a normal family, etc.). Which is nonsense.

Why's that nonsense? They're identically huge deviations, and that Shinji would likely have a radically different personality from the one we see in the show thanks to his upbringing.

Edited by Iaculus on Jan 15th 2019 at 4:58:18 PM

Can I just say vis-a-vis the love triangle debate... a) Shinji (and indeed, most of them) needs a therapist well before a love interest, and b) my opinion that Rei is the healthier LO option is precisely that, my opinion.

Anyway, if that Curse of Evangelion video is right about what Rebuild was, Hideaki Anno is just Old Man Yells at Cloud at this point. "Japanese people can't handle strong women likeMisato and Asuka." The point was that their "strength" was all a facade! Was he so depressed he doesn't remember anything about Eva like Stephen King was so coked out of his head he doesn't remember writing Cujo?

I can agree with there being a high likelihood of a huge deviation in personality due to the sheer amount/degree of differences. My problem is with going as far as refusing to acknowledge them as versions of the same character/person.

By that token, Lex Luthor from Earth-3 should not be considered as "same person, different universe" regarding the "original" Lex Luthor of Earth-1, just because the former is pretty much the complete opposite of the latter in terms of morality and personality (i.e. selfless honest-corp-exec hero vs. self-centered corrupt-corp-exec villain).

Shinji being a replacement goldfish reminds me of Astro Boy for some reason.

Now I'm imagining an alternate version of the story written by Naoki Urasawa about a superpowered angel clone of the original Shinji who has the personlity of Hyakkimaru from Dororo, and the original Rei being a biological normal human daughter with Shinji's canon personality.

Well the channel that posted the video I linked has an interesting theory on 3.0+1.0(the + is important guys) Basically it says that 1.0 is Eva as Eva is, 2.0 is Eva as the fans see Eva, and 3.0 is Eva as Anno sees Eva. So it follows, that 3.0+1.0 will be how Anno sees Eva, and Eva as is. I think it'll have a 3.0 feel for a while until it transitions into a 1.0 feel, and we get an ending similar to the original Eva, similar in themes not necessarily in events. We're essentially at episode 24 of the original series, with Kaworu having just died and Shinji reaching his lowest point.

Edited by SilverWinds on Jan 15th 2019 at 10:41:28 AM

You know, considering what Anno said he'd do in regards to his wife◊, maybe he really didn't intend Shinji's actions in 2.22 to be all that bad, at least initially.

Aww, that's sweet.

Indeed. For all the talk about how Anno apparently views Shinji's decision to save Rei at the end of 2.22 as being a poor decision, his comments here feel like he'd do the same thing in order to care for his wife.

'For all that talk' not, it now makes perfect sense for me why he smacked Shinji so badly in 3.0. Just think about it:

• Shinji is (or at least was) an Author Avatar.
• Anno was struggling with depression during 3.0.
• As we see in Shinji's case, self-hate is not uncommon during depression.
• So by punishing Shinji, Anno is metaphorically self-punishing.

And as someone who struggles with depression himself, I can say that that's not at all unusual: by lashing out at yourself, lashing out at what you hate, you reach catharsis and feel a bit better afterwards. As much as everyone sneers at the idea of emos cutting themselves, you don't actually need to physically hurt yourself; merely imagining it is fine.

Edited by amitakartok on Jan 17th 2019 at 2:25:07 PM

... Do we even have proof that this is something that he had actually said/written? Even if it was, from any other person I probably would've sympathized, but from Anno, all I can give is just a blank stare followed by "... Really? Is that why you did the first three Rebuild of Evangelion movies the way you did?"

You keep missing the point about Shinji's mistake. It's not that he wanted to protect Rei. It's that he said he and the world didn't matter when he had temporary control of reality. Wanting to devote yourself to someone is one thing. Assuming that you and the world need to (and, indeed, should) suffer for it is quite another.

Edited by Iaculus on Jan 17th 2019 at 3:13:17 PM

Even still though, I think that that can be excused as being in the heat of the moment. When you have someone else's life on the line in a perilous situation, you are going to be focused on one thing, regardless of what happens to you.

Really, I think Anno is pushing the consequences a bit too hard onto a situation where the logical thing isn't exactly something one will be thinking about.

It's something that exists in the context of everything else we know about Shinji as a severely depressed teenager, in the context of a dozen other little remarks he makes during 2.0 ('being honest with myself will only make me more miserable', anyone?) and in the context of 3.0, where we saw exactly how sincere he was about his desire for self-destruction and how it reshaped the world.

When someone with severe depression says they don't care what happens to themselves, that's your cue to sit up and pay attention, just as you would if a film includes a shot of a known alcoholic eyeing a bottle.

I don't know. I felt that his depressive state informing his actions really only started to come about in the third film, what with him being told of his accidental genocide and all that nastiness. In 2.0, that didn't come across, at least to me, instead just looking like the actions of someone wanting to save their friend when they had the chance.

Maybe this is all due to Anno's depression coming up again during the third film's production, but that all seems like a poorly communicated theme, at least imo.

His depression is established in the first movie, and he spends most of the second movie very deliberately not thinking about it and fixating on purposes outside himself that give his life meaning before his symptoms kick in again after the Bardiel fight. Zeruel is the logical next step for a severely depressed person after Bardiel - he's both trying to save a friend and punishing himself (and the world) for the friend he couldn't save.

This all just seems like a stretch until the third movie. It just doesn't feel consistent or really how the character came across to me until now, almost like Anno is pulling out retcons to further try and justify the theme of the third film. I also don't exactly think he even needed to do it. What was so wrong with him simply sharing a bond with Rei, and wanting to save her even if it cost him his life? Heck, that's even what Anno said he'd do to protect his wife.

Almost feels like Anno didn't think that was thought-provoking enough, and so also added in this whole "suicidal actions" subtext in the third movie as a way to try and give the scene more layers it didn't really need. Just have it be someone trying to save the perosn they love, and things don't go the way they planned. I mean, I still wouldn't agree with the path Anno took with the third film, but it wouldn't overcomplicate and retroactively put a damper on one of the best scenes in the entire series imo.

Like, in the second film, we see Shinji start to open up to others, form bonds with people like Rei and Asuka, and generally start to act normal. It's only after the Bardiel incident that he gets depressed, no doubt over failing to save Asuka. Feeling betrayed, he vows to not pilot again, until he sees Rei be devoured by Zeruel due to him not being there to give her back up. So he then sets out to save her, even if it costs him life. Where did this whole desire to die and self-destructive mentality come about? If anything, that was his mentality before he saw the predicament Rei was in, which I thought snapped him out of it. Seems like Anno and the like are fixating way too much on that one single line he uttered while in the middle of, again, an intense situation that any ordinary person would also be focused on rather than the consequences of what might come afterwards.

Then again, the third film was the subject of many rewrites and the like, so I'm not sure he even planned for it to be seen in that light until his depression kicked in again. Then again, Shinji saving Rei actually came about as a result of a peer-review process, making me think that maybe this is all just a case of Writer Revolt against things that Anno didn't think fit his original vision.

Edited by LDragon2 on Jan 18th 2019 at 1:18:49 AM

I don't know why you think that, consdiering how it ended with everyone shocked and terrified when Third Impact began at the end of 2, showing how very much it was a bad thing and probably helps fuel Misatos own guilt considering she cheered him on as he did it.

I don't think that's an accurate read at all. Shinji is pretty consistently portrayed as depressed through all of the works. He was improving in 2.0, but relapsed hard when Gendo activated the dummy plug. Those connections he made are still there, but the value he placed on them are now tinged by that void of emotions he's trapped in.

Third Impact was very much a bad thing, no matter what.

Edited by Zeromaeus on Jan 18th 2019 at 5:12:48 AM

Yeah, Third Impact was definitely a bad thing. Still, I liked that the reasons for it happening were much more open to interpretation and the like. Such as rather than it being deliberately activated due to some ancient conspiracy, or even by someone wanting, it was an unintended consequence of someone simply trying to save someone they cared for. Key word being unintended, unlike someone such as Gendo who would have definitely intended to end the world.

I would've preferred it if the consequences weren't so severe. Like, while Shinji did cause Third Impact, he didn't mean to. Again, he was caught in the heat of the moment, and just wanted to save a loved one. Heck, Misato told him to not do it for anyone else, but for his own actions. If Third Impact wasn't a factor, I doubt anyone would've been as harsh on the poor guy.

Heck, I feel that rather than throw more guilt onto the poor guy by treating him so coldly right from the beginning, WILLE should've at least tried to be more understanding of what he went through and why. Placing a bomb collar on him and greeting his awakening with guns pointed at him is precisely not what you do. And yet, we are supposed to see them as being completely in the right and the noble heroes of the story.

It's yet another case of Anno placing priority on the themes over the story. Shinji simply made an impulsive decision in the middle of an intense situation, and yet somehow this gets warped into a statement about the negatives of escapism and suicidal tendencies.

Edited by LDragon2 on Jan 18th 2019 at 3:03:16 AM