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Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Sep 5th 2010 at 3:47:46 PM

I've been using mine extensively. You're going to need them once you start needing them in March,
I'm in May.
where you're pitted against enemies whose suppressive fire can destroy your tank in a single turn.
While the tank is vulnerable, its generally more effective to keep it out of harms way rather than waste time repairing it. Also, it heals when undeployed just like everyone else.
Also, they can reload your sniper and lancer's ammunition and you tank's mortar rounds.
I actually tried this once, but couldn't figure out how to do it. In the previous game you just walked up to them, but it didn't work for some reason. Other than that though, your ammo recovers while undeployed. Rotating people in and out of battle is very key to strategy in the new, smaller maps.
Their later forms are also able to buff allies and have AOE heals.
My complaint was that they wouldn't get any credits. I suppose the buffs are a replacement for the old, cheaper Orders, but I'm never gonna get one unless I waste my time propping up a useless unit, so...

Also, engineers do about the same damage as scouts, with the same range, and only slightly less accuracy.
Scouts can move really far and see into grass. That's their primary purpose in this game. Honestly, scouts are pretty bad at killing things too.

I have Magari on my team for every fight I can.
I wish I could without sacrificing efficiency. I do have her on my team though, just undeployed. Honestly, I don't deploy anyone but Avan and the tank in the beginning of a battle. Undeployed characters are much more versatile. The whole game seems to be about bouncing in and out of bases now.

edited 5th Sep '10 3:48:37 PM by Clarste

Sep 5th 2010 at 6:06:50 PM

I've never had problems with my scout's damage. Usually, my shocktroopers end up being overkill and sitting there for a few seconds while they fire at an already dead enemy. And you earn credits as long as they do at least one credit earning action (which includes healing another teammate). As for reloading, running up to them should do it. You'll hear the 'schwoop' sound when it happens.

Besides, it's worth deploying them just for the sake of finishing their character arcs. They give some wonderful experience.

edited 5th Sep '10 6:08:24 PM by Miijhal

Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Sep 5th 2010 at 6:19:43 PM

I do plan on doing that, but it's much lower priority when compared to deploying people with unfinished story arcs who also have useful classes.

Scouts can take care of Shocktroopers standing by themselves in the middle of nowhere, but when you get to crouching Fencers in a camp you kinda want more firepower. My basic policy is that if you don't kill an enemy or capture a base (or both) with each point then they're being wasted and you could've planned better. Engineers exist primarily as a way of fixing your old mistakes, when clearly it's better to have simply not made the mistakes in the first place.

Sep 5th 2010 at 6:46:20 PM

Ah, well, our play styles certainly differ. Really, I'm less concerned about efficiency as I am about which characters I'm using. And I generally take care of crouched lancers with scouts by tossing a grenade then getting a headshot on them.

Sep 5th 2010 at 8:23:57 PM

So, I have another question - I've heard comparisons between this game and Persona 3/4's social system. How similar are they?

Sep 5th 2010 at 8:38:09 PM

I doubt they're all that similar. As you play with certain squad members, you start unlocking little cutscenes that go a little more in depth into the character, and after the third cutscene for a character, you unlock a new mission which, upon completion, give the relevant character a new trait or replaces a bad one with a good one, and makes the character friends with Avan (which makes them more effective around him). After that, nothing new happens for that character.

edited 5th Sep '10 8:38:38 PM by Miijhal

Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Sep 5th 2010 at 9:27:04 PM

Which is, of course, extremely similar to the newer Persona games. Instead of hanging out with them you use them in battle, but other than that it's pretty much a mini-social link system. There's no calendar limitation though, so it ends up completely different in that respect.

Comonad This bacon is awesome from 19th Jan '38 3:14:07 AM
This bacon is awesome
Sep 5th 2010 at 9:32:34 PM

Sounds more like Fire Emblem to me. Persona is fairly unique for having socialization happen in a completely non-combat context, if I'm using functional logic.

Torment liveblog is still hiatusing. You can vandalize my contributor page if you want something to do.
Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Sep 5th 2010 at 10:20:58 PM

Unlike Fire Emblem, only Avan can interact with them and they tell little stories where their personal issues get resolved. you get the points for using them in battle, but that's not relevant to the stories themselves. Also, these aren't battle buddy relationships, they're school friend relationships. It's much more similar to Persona in the way its done.

edited 5th Sep '10 10:22:04 PM by Clarste

SuperDimensionman "Justice!" from the future.
"Justice!"
Sep 5th 2010 at 11:07:08 PM

I don't know anything about the second game beyond what I've read in this thread, so I should probably have asked this question before I ordered a copy: what are the main gameplay differences between this and the first Valkyria Chronicles?

Sep 5th 2010 at 11:13:30 PM

Maps are split up into multiple areas now, the previously mentioned character arcs, tanks are a lot more customizable, there's a new branching class system (for example, scouts can become snipers or elite scouts who can each become two other classes each), there's a new morale system, there's multiplayer co-op and versus modes, and so on.

SuperDimensionman "Justice!" from the future.
"Justice!"
Sep 5th 2010 at 11:32:13 PM

Maps are split up into multiple areas now, the previously mentioned character arcs, tanks are a lot more customizable, there's a new branching class system (for example, scouts can become snipers or elite scouts who can each become two other classes each), there's a new morale system, there's multiplayer co-op and versus modes, and so on.

It's more the lower-level "select a unit and go shoot a guy" gameplay that I was referring to; I don't know for sure why I didn't much like the first game, so I can only conclude that there was something wrong with the core combat that I can't consciously identify, and I'm just hoping they fixed it in the mean time.

Sep 5th 2010 at 11:34:54 PM

Very little change there, then.

SuperDimensionman "Justice!" from the future.
"Justice!"
Sep 5th 2010 at 11:42:30 PM

Very little change there, then.

In that case, I'll just have to hope it was the level design or something. The premise has enough potential to be totally rad that it's worth expending the effort to find out.

Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Sep 6th 2010 at 12:22:33 AM

You can only have 6 people out at a time, but you can more easily retreat them without spending CP. Also, units can act on the same turn that they're deployed, using the same CP that they were deployed with. This, combined with the small maps connected by base camps, completely changes the flow of the game. For the better, imo. Rather than starting with far more units than you have the CP to efficiently move up the map with, encouraging use of a few invincible super-units, there's much more emphasis on having the right unit out at the right place at the right time, and several gameplay mechanics such as APCs to facilitate this.

Unless you just hated the general select -> run -> shoot dynamic, I'd say the basic gameplay is quite different. There's really a whole new emphasis on having a fluid fighting force.

edited 6th Sep '10 12:29:20 AM by Clarste

SuperDimensionman "Justice!" from the future.
"Justice!"
Sep 6th 2010 at 1:16:42 AM

You can only have 6 people out at a time, but you can more easily retreat them without spending CP. Also, units can act on the same turn that they're deployed, using the same CP that they were deployed with. This, combined with the small maps connected by base camps, completely changes the flow of the game. For the better, imo. Rather than starting with far more units than you have the CP to efficiently move up the map with, encouraging use of a few invincible super-units, there's much more emphasis on having the right unit out at the right place at the right time, and several gameplay mechanics such as APCs to facilitate this.

Unless you just hated the general select -> run -> shoot dynamic, I'd say the basic gameplay is quite different. There's really a whole new emphasis on having a fluid fighting force.

I'm not sure if it's the reason I didn't like the combat in the first game, or a symptom of the same, but the "buff-up-and-blitz-through-a-single-point" approach to combat just isn't my style, so it's probably a good sign if that's gone, because I never used it in the first place. Maybe I'm just not playing it the right way?

edited 6th Sep '10 1:16:57 AM by SuperDimensionman

Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Sep 6th 2010 at 2:01:53 AM

Well, regardless of how you actually play, it's still true that they made it easier to switch between units dynamically. I think it has a quite different feel. Fighting on multiple fronts is also now the default set-up of an average map.

Sep 7th 2010 at 3:52:37 PM

Finished up VC 1 last night. The bit with Faldio's death felt like it needed another write, but overall, I was satisfied with the resolution.

Started up VCII, got about an hour and a half in.

Please. Someone. Tell me the plot gets better.

Because right now, it's like they took everything that made the cast of the first game interesting, squashed it out, and put it in the most cliche, flat stereotypes they could find. I'm not going to say the first game doesn't hit a few old tropes, but the characters had more depth and quirks, and also flat-out better dialog, to make up for it.

I'm also wondering why everyone is acting like Lanseal is so special. The first game pointed out that everyone in the country has military training so they can be drafted in times of war. So presumably, there's dozens of institutions supporting this initiative. Yet, Lanseal is supposedly the only military institution and they're actually restricted?

Also, while VC 1 had a great dub, VCII is just grating on me. Avan's laugh, oh god, it makes my soul hurt. Naturally, this is the version with no Japanese track (likely space related). Oh god, the hurt.

Of the three main character's I've been handed so far, only Zeri seems interesting. Actually, he looks badass. I wish HE was the main character. The only thing amusing to me abut Avan is that he carries a book full of vapid inspirational phrases that he can inexplicably draw strength from, but only because I think the game is playing this for humor. God I hope it is. I may throw my PSP if they expect me to take that seriously. My god, Welkin was a guy that drew pictures of fish for fun and talked about bugs and flowers, but at least he was INTERESTING!

I'm also having serious issues adjusting to the control scheme, especially coming right off VCI. Some of it seems non-intuitive. I'm also annoyed that the game is sticking so rigidly to certain cliches that we've got a damn Staff Chick again when the first game averted it so well. While gender diversity in the classes isn't actually that bad, it does bother me that the only female main character we've been shown plays that stereotype so perfectly.

I'm going to stick it out, since word of mouth has been good on this, but that first impression is rough.

Sep 7th 2010 at 4:34:22 PM

Quick question for you gentlemen: Is the cover system still nonsense? It amazed me in the first game how crouching enemies got the full benefits of cover even when I was behind them.

Sep 7th 2010 at 6:58:46 PM

It's still there. Presumably because otherwise, cover would be mostly useless.

Sep 7th 2010 at 7:46:04 PM

Oh god. Randy is Light Yagami.

Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Sep 7th 2010 at 8:09:51 PM

I do think the main characters are significantly less interesting than VC 1, but the fact that the secondary characters play a more active role in cutscenes and whatnot makes up for it a bit. The plot progresses very very slowly. Think Persona 3. It gets okay later on, but not great.

As for Lanseal, it's basically the officer academy for elite students. Everyone gets basic military training in middle school, but Lanseal is the elite Ivy League college for people who already have basic military training and want advanced military training. Apparently it's education is just as good as the experience of actually fighting a war, so I guess it's decent.

Also, I'm pretty sure Avan's quotebook is being played for comedy. He stops mentioning it as he grows into the charismatic leader type. He never stops being a Hot Blooded Idiot Hero archetype though. It's implied that he wins by getting his troops to unleash their potential rather than by clever strategies or intelligence, completely unlike Welkin. Which makes a lot less sense, but whatever.

edited 7th Sep '10 8:23:35 PM by Clarste

Sep 7th 2010 at 8:13:19 PM

Well, most of his troops do the strategizing for him. :P

Also, Gallia's militia is meant to fight against external threats. They're different than professional Gallian soldiers, who are allowed to fight against the rebels. Everyone receives training as part of the mandatory conscription into the militia, but Lanseal is for training professional soldiers.

Also, I just got the 'Unrelated' title. I'm going to go puke now.

edited 7th Sep '10 8:18:31 PM by Miijhal

Clarste One Winged Egret Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
Sep 7th 2010 at 8:31:30 PM

Luckily Franca doesn't seem to feel the same way.

Sep 7th 2010 at 8:37:58 PM

Indeed. I'm considering not doing her arc because I'd like to keep her hating him.

Also, Lotte has begun to remind me of Sweet Bro And Hella Jeff.


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