Follow TV Tropes

Following

Bleach

Go To

Sep 17th 2019 at 3:50:49 PM

[up][up]

Both Yhwach and Harribel see the world as a sea of blood and are sick of it. Harribel also doesn't want a world that is based on sacrifice and tries her best to create a sanctuary for those that are preyed upon. Yhwach wants to create a world without death that doesn't need to sacrifice someone as the lynchpin. Plus, when Harribel saw what the Shinigami did to Yhwach, she was disgusted and begun to sympathize with Aizen's hatred of the system. The only reason she remained passive was because she was in the dept of the Shinigami and ashamed of her inability to defend Hueco Mundo.

Now imagine, if Yhwach was the one who told her about the original sin, how that lead to Hueco Mundo being a Crapsack World, his own past and what his and the Quincy's goals are and the benefits of his world. Yhwach unlike Ichibee would not mince the actions of the Shinigami and certainly paint his side as noble as possible. And while Yhwach's world has some flaws, neither of them may be aware of that. Even Aizen seemed to believe that Yhwach's world would be a perfect one.

Yhwach seems to have a way with words, since most Sternritte have literal undying loyalty and even someone like Bazz-B went from "trying to kill him" to "just following orders" and was genuinely surprised by the Auswahlen. And it is possible that Yhwach even managed to make Ryuken to join him temporarily at some point.

[up] It's actually only five to six Quincy (not counting the likes of Ryuken or Ichigo). Yhwach only left the survivors of the Auswahlen (Giselle, Liltotto, Bazz-B & Na Na Na) and Bambietta behind. And it's possible that he still allowed the unknown eight target of the Auswahlen access - assuming that said Sternritter survived it - since someone had to control the statues that attacked Ichigo's group. Every other Quincy was taken to Wahrwelt. Admittedly with some delay for the non Schutzstaffel Quincy.

Edited by bandersnitch on Sep 17th 2019 at 3:58:29 AM

Sep 17th 2019 at 4:01:09 PM

Yhwach slaughtered her species kinda and her subordinates definitely. I don't think she would be a big fan.

slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Sep 17th 2019 at 4:02:47 PM

She actually is characterized as caring for her own men so she'd definitly not side with a Team Killer again.

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
Sep 18th 2019 at 8:19:35 AM

Yeah, trying o justify this seems a real stretch to make bad writing palatable

Sep 18th 2019 at 3:05:48 PM

I think it is rather likely that Harribel would have joined Yhwach. As already said, the novels outight brought up the possibility that Yhwach wanted to bring her to his new world and/or make her a Quincy-Arrancar hybrid. I doubt Kubo introduced that concept just because. And it makes sense for several reasons:

1. Yhwach and Harribel have a similar view of the world. He would know how to bait Harribel. Yhwach is able to make people extremely loyal to him. Several Sternritter still wanted to follow him, even after he killed them. Even someone like Bazz-B became more loyal somehow.

2. Yhwach is able to fill the emptiness in her heart. His soul pieces have been confirmed to be Hogyokus in the novel. They allow to manifest ones innermost desire. As a Hollow, driven by her lack of heart, that would be rather tempting. The Espada vs Can't fear your own world collab shows what happens when the Espada are able to fill that emptiness.

3. The original sin represents everything Harribel dislikes about the world, as it affirms her cynicism that the world is built upon the sacrifice of the helpless for the strong. Only seeing what Ichibee did to Yhwach disgusted her and made her sympathize with Aizen's ideals and goals. Learning the truth has so far brought out some rather strong reactions from those who found out, like Aizen finding something morally reprehensible or Yhwach believing that death would be a much more merciful alternative. So, one has to wonder what Harribel's reaction would be, especially if she learned the truth from Yhwach's point of view.

4. Yhwach's world would be ideal for someone like Harribel. So the chance to live in a world where the fear of death is gone, might be too tempting to pass up.

5. Harribel knew how Aizen treated his underlings, how he had conquered Hueco Mundo and what he did to his former comrades. Yet she still followed him. Not only that, she was also willing to massacre the citizens of Karakura town to help Aizen create his new world. This shows that she is willing to comprise her morals if she believes that the end result is worth it.

Sep 19th 2019 at 8:27:20 AM

The person who wants to avoid her comrades being sacrifice would join a guy running a One-Man Subordinate Abattoir who is committing hollow genocide in her kingdom.

.....Yeah, there's nothing that makes this work. Nothing.

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Sep 19th 2019 at 8:52:27 AM

I’ll say there it COULD have worked in execution but there would need to be a lot of material between points A and B, a full character arc for Harribel and cut short or not that doesn’t seem the kind of thing Bleach would spring for

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
Sep 19th 2019 at 9:29:53 AM

Probably have her see the Soul King as well since she was disgusted by what they did to Yhwach when he became the new SK.

Even made her realize Aizen was likely right about some things.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 19th 2019 at 9:30:53 AM

Sep 19th 2019 at 2:48:24 PM

[up][up][up]

You mean like how she worked with Aizen? Aizen had conquered Hueco Mundo by massacring Barragan's army and had performed countless human experiments. Yet she still voiced no objection. And it's not like Aizen was a great boss. And again, Harribel was willing to commit genocide and be involved in the deaths of a millions innocent civilians. All to help Aizen create his world.

Harribel later had also zero issues being friendly and working with Grimmjow, who is confirmed to go on killing sprees in Hueco Mundo on a regular basis. Harribel likewise initiated an alliance with Liltotto and Giselle, who had tried to unleash a zombie apocalypse in Hueco Mundo.

I don't see why Yhwach would an issue if the others aren't. And Yhwach has better arguments for an alliance than the others.

[up][up]

I mean the final war was supposed to last nine days and we only covered two and half. One can only imagine what could have happened in those. There is a lot of content cut. The novels only manage to cover some of it and even here some was deliberately left out, like the secrets of Urahara.

Edited by bandersnitch on Sep 19th 2019 at 2:56:47 AM

Saiga Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads from Sunny Australia Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads
Sep 19th 2019 at 3:06:51 PM

We don't even know when the 9 days started. It could have easily been 9 days after the Wandenreich first started moving, and I think that fits a bit better than it starting at a point after the Wandenreich started acting.

I'm watching Dragonball GT & sharing my thoughts on my blog!
Sep 19th 2019 at 3:50:14 PM

We actually know. When explaining the Kaisergesang to Uryuu, Yhwach said something along the lines of the last nine days start now. It also makes more sense. The last nine days also start with the anniversary of Masaki's death. If the arc had started with the nine days then we should see the Kurosaki's at the graveyard. Instead they were just chilling like it was any normal day.

A little fun fact: Masaki's death was on June 17. The Kaisergesang would be fulfilled on June 26, which just so happens to be Kubo's birthday.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
Sep 25th 2019 at 10:32:16 AM

I just wanted to sing the praises of a part of the series I keep forgetting existed: Kubo's poems in the volumes. I was looking up "Quincy Archer Hates You", and went down the rabbit hole on rereading them.

So here's an article about them, and here's the first 50.

Don't hurt others. Do as much good as you can.
Saiga Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads from Sunny Australia Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads
Sep 26th 2019 at 5:41:52 AM

I really need to read the rest of them. I don't know how many I've read though.

I also really need to complete my collection since I'm sitting at something like 67 volumes.

I'm watching Dragonball GT & sharing my thoughts on my blog!
FrozenWolf2 Just an Old Mon from Stuck in Kanto
Just an Old Mon
Sep 27th 2019 at 9:41:07 AM

Ewww Sizzle you're so gross

"You ever breathe through more then one opening boy? Once I get better you be sure to let me know what its like."
Oct 5th 2019 at 7:34:40 AM

A few Bleach news:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDFzUGPd_0E

Zombie Hitsugaya, Mayuri and Nemu have been added to Bleach Brave Souls. Interestingly, Giselle's blood doesn't give Hisugaya red skin, it also gives him red eyes and makes his ice red. Also this marks the first official debut of a Sternritter, with Giselle appearing in the accompanying event. While BG 9 and Pernida also appeared, they unlike Giselle were just copy and pasted from the colored manga. Haschwalth technically also appeared, but he was just a bodyless voice. The also released Shutara's fake Soul Palace as a new background, making it the second background from the manga after Wahrwelt.

The reason for this is, that the final arc will come to Brave Souls this winter: https://www.reddit.com/r/BleachBraveSouls/comments/d9yb1k/tybw_story_confirmed_for_this_winter/. It's also confirmed that Michibane Aura, Seinosuke Yamada, Bankai Shinji and Bankai Hisagi will come in 2020.

Viz has announced that Cant't fear your own world (plus another Naruto novel and the Ace novel from One Piece) will be released in the west next summer.

https://twitter.com/VIZMedia/status/1180146389029916673?s=19

Missstormcaller has translated a new part of the novel. https://missstormcaller.tumblr.com/post/186949471617/cant-fear-your-own-world-vol-ii-part-16-full

- Mayuri is not allowed to implant bombs into his subordinates or zombies anymore. Shunsui and the new C46 figured out that it is kinda inhumane.

- Harribel's Stripperiffic outfit has been lampshaded. By Candice out of all people. Meninas mentions that she is the last person to complain.

- Candice still refers to Yhwach as his majesty. Liltotto wants her to stop with that, though it doesn't seem to stick.

- Giselle really doesn't like it, when people scream her nickname, as it then sounds like jiji or Old man.

- Going by Liltotto's and Mayuri's conversation, it seems that there are indeed other Sternritter both within Mayuri's possession or alive within the Wandenreich.

- Liltotto is smarter than Uryuu.

- Liltotto thinks Yhwach must have been crazy for not making Mayuri a war potential.

- Mayuri offers to make Liltotto grow. Meanwhile the hatred between Giselle and Mayuri continues. Giselle wants her zombies back and it seems that Mayuri is still resentful of the time, she outsmarted him.

- Bambietta's motivation shifted from wanting blood to trying to protect her friends.

- According to Liltotto, Lille is the kind of person, who, if Yhwach had ordered him to die a painful death, would make sure to kill himself in the most agonizing way possible.

- Apprently Gremmy's imaginations are dreams he has and when his body disappeared, he "woke up". The Kanji for the Visionary says "The dreamer", but still.

Oct 5th 2019 at 8:15:31 AM

[up]So what were Meninas and the others doing during the last part of the arc?

Oct 5th 2019 at 1:09:36 PM

Geez Giselle just faked her death, being that petty over it is....completely in character with Mayuri, who even took the bait for Aizens pissing contests involving the chair.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
Oct 5th 2019 at 11:02:31 PM

So wait, what is Brave Souls, again? What models of phone is it for and where are the costs? Is there a list of who is playable out there? Or what the story is? Has anyone played it and have thoughts to share?

Don't hurt others. Do as much good as you can.
FrozenWolf2 Just an Old Mon from Stuck in Kanto
Just an Old Mon
Oct 5th 2019 at 11:25:22 PM

you can play it on a tablet... its pretty much a gacha Sengoku Basara clone

right now its got what if versions of characters

"You ever breathe through more then one opening boy? Once I get better you be sure to let me know what its like."
Oct 5th 2019 at 11:26:57 PM

I would kill for Quincy Ichigowith Bow in the manga.

Saiga Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads from Sunny Australia Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads
Oct 5th 2019 at 11:44:33 PM

[up][up][up] I've played it. Pretty fun for a mobile game, and incredibly easy to get max rarity characters as F2P. But I think it's suffering from complexity bloat, in that they keep adding new systems to make your characters stronger than can individually be rather complex to keep track of in terms of what items/currency you need to unlock skills or ascend them to higher levels.

And there's a lot of grinding/doing really hard missions to get all the materials needed for upgrades. I had fun with it, but the gameplay is pretty simple and eventually the grind becomes too much when you get a new character you want to use. Also, it was way too demanding to keep up with stuff like events.

I'm watching Dragonball GT & sharing my thoughts on my blog!
FrozenWolf2 Just an Old Mon from Stuck in Kanto
Just an Old Mon
Oct 5th 2019 at 11:51:42 PM

[up][up]But that would Require Ichigo to turn his back on ROMANTIC TRADITIONAL JAPANESE VALUES!

I love the fact that Ichigo new fuck you Bankai is just a stereotypical Jrpg Sword

Cause We basically NEVER see it in Action outside of doing what Ichigo does with EVERY version of Zangetsu.

Honestly Kubo just screwed the pooch with the Blood War... If you are gonna try to make a all sides are morally the same or your gonna go for the Ichigo you idiot your on the wrong side twist...

Ya kinda have to commit to it, and Kubo as a writer shows he really doesn't know how to commit

He'll do the stereotypical Shonen thing over the Dramatically appropriate thing

Example is how the Ulq Fight ended.

Ulq shouldn't have been the one to save Hime from Ichigo, Hime should have talked Ichigo down 'it would have book ended with her confession at the start of it all'

or the twist that he's most famous for.. That completely derailed his narrative as you can see him struggle to try and make both of them fit to the point he never really does so he just has Mayuri of all people out do both of them.

The whole Aizen thing... since Kubo outright said Kisuke was the original villain 'which makes sense with how he's portrayed in the early chapters' and thus we never get any real definitive shit about the two its just vague hints and whose the more enigmatic.

then again the entire narrative shifting gears to something more traditionally Shonen also hit Kishimoto in Naruto, whose had basically been showing that the Ninja world was itself the problem... and then we got magical moon people and spiritual blood feuds to blame for our problems! Cause we needed a problem that could be punched

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Oct 5th 2019 at 1:52:11 PM

"You ever breathe through more then one opening boy? Once I get better you be sure to let me know what its like."
Saiga Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads from Sunny Australia Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads
Oct 5th 2019 at 11:56:26 PM

There was no way the story was heading in the direction of Ichigo being on the wrong side. People mocked that very idea when Ginjo had his whole "Ukitake is the mastermind!" bit, but thankfully Ichigo shot that down.

Kubo was already portraying the Vandenreich as assholes before Blondzen's "both sides are just" speech, its clear that the Vandenreich aren't comparable to the Quincy that Uryu came from.

He had never committed to that idea, it's not a case of backing out of it or anything.

I'm watching Dragonball GT & sharing my thoughts on my blog!
Rynnec Killing is my business Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
Killing is my business
Oct 6th 2019 at 12:05:43 AM

I just wanted Ichigo to use the Quincy Bow, even if only for one fight. Not sure why a Face–Heel Turn would be necessary for that to happen.

Edited by Rynnec on Oct 6th 2019 at 2:06:23 PM

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness." My twitter
slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Oct 6th 2019 at 12:06:59 AM

Ichigo really suffered from being a one-trick pony.

He never did voluntarily use a Cero until right in the last battle.

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.

Total posts: 86,207
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report