Bleach

He was nice to literally only one person & that person was practically his most loyal subordinate that he’s known for millennia & a fellow psycho.

It’s not that big a deal especially since his horrible behavior to his other subordinates like Barragon & Harribel appears to remain untouched.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 30th 2019 at 2:31:42 AM

Especially given that this particular instance of 'sort of caring about a person' manifested as killing them at a previously agreed upon point. That's not exactly, y'know, a healthy relationship or anything. Just Aizen, is his own twisted way, showing a tiny bit of respect for the guy who'd been with him the longest.

Aizen is still a misogynistic bastard who is still playing to the elite

I don't think a bad guy one redeeming trait automatically means they were suddenly a benevolent guy who dindu nutthin'.

If Narita didn't have a bizarre history of whitewashing bad guys? I'd be a bit more optimistic, as this is still out of nowhere nonsense.

Its just a minor bit of respect, its not like he's donating to charity & taking care of orphans.

I see why Lighty is apprehensive. Adding things onto characters after the fact isn't always going to be a good thing to do, especially if you aren't convinced that it makes any sense.

Oh great, that shitty term.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Apr 30th 2019 at 11:58:34 AM

Narita doesn't "whitewash" bad guys so much as he humanizes them. Izaya, Ladd Russo, Aizen, etc. are all still bad guys, they just get more dimensions added to them so they're more than that. People really need to chill out and understand that just because a villain has understandable or good qualities to them doesn't automatically mean they're less of a villain.

Also to me the more significant thing is that it makes Tosen seem more self aware which is pretty big for me.

In Narita's case? We've gone from "Yhwach is a misunderstood hero trying to fix the world" from the fascist psycho he was in the manga, to a sexually abusive sadist just being "it's actually a complicated relationship and not hideously abusive at all" while the Soul Society's worst traits are jacked up well past where they should go. Now Aizen, a character once defined by his soicopathy and sadism is having Narita sneak in positive traits to the point one of his nastier moves becomes "Oh, Tosen really wanted it that way."

Narita's proclivities don't instill me with any confidence.

I wonder if there’s an expression that’s basically making a mountain out of a molehill but it means a hundred times more than that.

The novels been pretty clear how the previous world wasn't that better than the current one, just different. And that Yhwach was wrong and even his own Quincy followers fundamentally opposed such a world.

Besides I had been arguing that before the novels were ever at thing. The novels just clarified it was a different kind of suck.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 1st 2019 at 5:19:53 AM

Bambi x Giselle is just Narita's fascination with twisted relationships. Not really meant to be viewed as "healthy" by any means, doesn't stop me from shipping it. Soul Society's been a shithole from day 1, which is made clear even in the manga. Yhwach sounds like a clear case of in-universe Motive Decay, and the only thing that the recent reveal does with Aizen is make him less like a one-dimensional douche, which is and always has been one of his biggest criticisms as a character, among others. I think what Saiga said is the bigger takeaway from it.

It was only partially Motive Decay. Yhwach's desire to save his father remained strong till the end. Though the novels bring up the possibility that Ichigo and Yhwach could have been manipulated by the Soul King. But that is only speculation from Ichibee.

Everything the novels reveal about the antagonists so far is based on what was stated and shown in the manga. I think only Tosen and Ginjou are put into a new light and with both, the new revelations are plausible. Especially Ginjou had quite a bit of foreshadowing and set up.

Edited by bandersnitch on May 1st 2019 at 9:45:41 AM

I have to agree with Lightysnake. The Bleach novels are randomly adding redeeming qualities to villans that weren't there before. It's basically a canonzed version of Draco in Leather Pants, and I don't like it one bit.

Ironically, Ginjou is like the only one this stuff actually works for, given he's the villain with actual sympathetic qualities and implied to have a difficult backstory with Soul Society.

If the manga wanted to imply Aizen gave a rip about Tosen, they could've had Aizen emote at his death beyond a satisfied smirk or make a comment about it.

I honestly see nothing wrong with it, because it doesn't redeem or make Aizen sympathetic beyond showing there is a microscopic white dot in that black hole of a heart.

And its already been made clear by Ichigo who understands people when he clashes with them in the manga that Aizen wanted friends all along. But Aozen is such an aweful person that something like that is beyond his reach. Even this new info has Tosen the closest he will ever have to a friend which still only involves murdering him and people Tosen himself cared about with sadistic glee.

Just like the manga strongly alluded Yhwach has some fucked up ideas of comradery and compassion himself, while still being a Impure Quincy baby eater. And him showing Mercy to his father and then eating his corpse.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 1st 2019 at 12:43:50 PM

Even that "microscopic white dot" is Character Derailment to me.

The whole "Aizen just wanted friends" reveal is honestly just BS to me. It was thrown in at the very last moment to make the story look deeper and more meaningful.

The manga only showed that Yhwach thought everything in the universe existed for his own pleasure and benefit.

Edited by JG98 on May 1st 2019 at 12:48:19 PM

You're using Character Derailment wrong, then.

Yeah you are using that trope wrong.

It’s not like Aizen’s character is majorly changed anyway.

Edited by slimcoder on May 1st 2019 at 12:50:48 PM

, Or maybe I'm using it right and you just don't see it.

Edited by JG98 on May 1st 2019 at 12:52:33 PM

Yeah you're using it wrong when he's still the same misogynistic self absorbed immortal dick hes always been.

That only applies if a characters been majorly changed to the extreme as the tropes page example attests.

Having Aizen not be a completely one note villain is not Character Derailment. It's obvoius Kubo didn't mean for it to be that way either.

Edited by Aquaconda on May 1st 2019 at 2:57:59 PM