Bleach

My point was that Aizen wouldn't have gotten as far as he did if not for all the bullshit.

And speaking of bullshit, the mention of Byakuya got me thinking of something that has always bugged me. Ichigo never beat him. I don't care if his zanpakuto was broken, he still had enough in him to shumpo away. Ichigo meanwhile was lying prone on the ground.

Byakuya could have used the broken tip to cut his throat and that's the end of Ichigo. Byakuya wins.

edited 17th Mar '13 3:25:55 PM by Nikkolas

Yes, but on the other hand Byakuya felt that he had lost because Ichigo wasn't fighting all out. He was purposefully refraining from potentially lethal attacks.

He broke his sword. That's symbolic. And SYMBOLISMWTFBBQ trumps your puny hooman logic.

Ichigo broke Byakuya's best attack, and could have already killed him in the first place. Also, if someone admits defeat, they've lost. No matter what anyone else says.

edited 17th Mar '13 3:31:08 PM by Saiga

After busting out your best attack and having it defeated it just feels lame to win with something less climactic.

Ichigo only got that initial advantage because, as both combatants noted, he underestimated Ichigo.

And Byakuya never used Gokei on him.

And then rhe real kicker is the fact Ichigo was fucked and going to die if not for Shirosaki intervening. He not only saved Ichigo, he damaged Byakuya.

Ichigo should be disqualified.

It turns out that in the arena of "invading a place to save a friend" there aren't actually referees to red card you. So, yeah. He gets away with it.

Hahahaha bullshit. Byakuya openly admits he lost sight of Ichigo when Ichigo put the sword to his throat and calls it a miracle (which Ichigo shows is bullshit). He could have killed him immediately.

Ichigo's bones breaking from his Bankai is the only thing that gave Byakuya a fighting chance, and Ichigo stopped his hollow's interference before it went too far. Then he beat down Byakuya's best attack (which is not Gokei) and Byakuya admitted defeat.

Byakuya lost. It is completely black and white.

edited 17th Mar '13 3:42:05 PM by Saiga

Come on guys, come on, add some nasu and you'll be in the drinking game zone :v

Um, sorry, his best attack against Ichigo is Gokei. I freely admit Ichigo is faster than Byakuya but that speed means jack shit against Gokei. Ichigo is not avoiding it and he is not coming otu of it without massive damage.

And it's great you just completely passed over the fact Shirosaki fucked up Byakuya. I'll take that as a concession that Ichigo received outside help.

As for the start of the fight, that's base levels. Byakuya's best powers are with his sword. He's not Ichigo, incapable of anything except hack, slash and generic energy beams. He needs to release to gain his full arsenal.

Are you serious? Byakuya needs to Flash Step out of Gokei to avoid damage. That means someone of Byakuya's speed can Flash Step out of Gokei. Ichigo is faster than that. Therefore, Ichigo can Flash Step out of Gokei.

Ichigo's hollow is part of Ichigo. So no, he didn't receive outside help. That's like saying WAH BYAKUYA USED SENBONZAKURA DISQUALIFY HIM. Especially with what we've learned of Zanpakuto recently... heh. Hehehehe. It actually makes much more sense to bitch about Zenbonsakura now that I think about it.

I didn't say anything about base levels but anyway.

Can I just once again point out how lame Byakuya's scene of a murder or whatever ability is? Or at least the way Byakuya uses it.

edited 17th Mar '13 3:54:25 PM by Bocaj

I did actually mean that when I said Ichigo's bones breaking is the only thing that gave Byakuya a chance, but then I realised that applies to him not using the murder scene as well.

Gokei is useless against Ichigo. Getsuga Tensho at it, Flash Step through the gap left behind the beam.

That may be so, but that's not how Ichigo saw it at the time. As far as Ichigo was concerned, Shirosaki was, for all intents and purposes, outside help.

Not that it really matters though.

edited 17th Mar '13 4:01:45 PM by CrimsonFlameKnight

That's only because he refuses to accept him. He has no problem with Zangetsu, after all.

But even if we, for some reason, counted inner hollows as outside help and not Zanpakuto, it still doesn't matter. If you win with outside help, you've still won.

Your edit made this kind of pointless then >.>

edited 17th Mar '13 4:04:39 PM by Saiga

Yeah, if Ichigo and Byakuya were fighting in a tournament with defined rules or something, then maybe we could hold Shirosaki bailing him out against him, not so much in an actual fight with lives on the line.

That being side, I do think Byakuya did throw the fight. He seemed to have a bit more fight in him, while Ichigo could barely stand.

I wouldn't say admitting defeat is the same thing as throwing the fight. Even if Byakuya could use kido or something to kill Ichigo, that doesn't mean he threw the fight. They both agreed to have one last class with their attacks to determine the winner, after all. And Ichigo had won the moral battle there.

And the bottom line is that fights are extremely situational to begin with.

Eh, that whole "One last clash" thing seemed like Byakuya scrambling to find an out from his honor. It was a way to justify letting Ichigo win more than an earnest attempt to beat him.

Eh the reason Byakuya gave makes more sense than that explanation.

Eh. It's entirely possible my memory is failing me on some of the details.

Eh. Eh. Eh.

Eh?

Meh.

Heh.