General Language Thread

In German there are still many regional dialects even within the DACH countries

Some popular differences are what jam filled donuts◊ or house shoes◊ are called.

Then there is also the topic of how some regions read the clock◊. The green region always counts to the next hour so 10:15 becomes " quarter eleven". The other colored regions count past the last hour until a point where it swaps to counting to the next hour.

Edited by Kiefen on Mar 23rd 2023 at 1:28:59 PM

My German(-Brazilian) teacher: "Okay, so the Swiss say 'Grüezi' and use some funny words, but at our level, you should have no problem understanding simple conversations!"

Actual Swiss German:

(Yeah I could still make out many of the words but why 👏 are 👏 they 👏 spelled 👏 Like 👏 That)

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Mar 23rd 2023 at 10:55:34 AM

A funny thing is that French and Canadians tend to blame each other for using so many English loan words. We just don't use the same ones.

So does anyone know any good French webcomics?

Uuuh… I’ve heard of Colossale (about a girl from a bourgeois family who’s secretly into bodybuilding) but haven’t read it, don’t know if it’s actually good.

Edited by Lyendith on Mar 27th 2023 at 4:24:47 PM

RE: brands as verbs.

Sure, let me Abloy the door and then Kone down to ground level.

The site seems to be buggy, the comics won't load.

Oh nevermind, for some reason it has a full screen of white space.

Edited by Redmess on Mar 28th 2023 at 3:23:37 PM

when people complain about how bad and dumb trans pronouns sound, is not really changing language what they hate, if they did they would hate any new word, is the idea of ever respecting trans sexual identities that really bugs them.

Have you tried with a VPN? Maybe it’s a region problem.

edit: Oh wait, you’re right, a lot of white.

Edited by Lyendith on Mar 28th 2023 at 7:46:29 PM

Well, some people really don't like language changes like that. They are mostly pedantic prescriptivists who sincerely believe a language should be preserved in amber and preferably never, ever, ever change, even if there are very good reasons for it.

And then there's of course what pronouns trans people actually pick. If you pick something that looks interesting on the page but no one can actually pronounce, then that pronoun will be dead in the water regardless of who you try to push it on.

Kiobi + Redmess: And there is important question: Which language do you think? If we talk about languages woithout gramatical gender, where used pronoun is only difference, I tend to agree, that it is just language purism or hidden disrespect. But in languages, where gender determine form of all verbs and adjectives, it is more brutal attack to language. Of course, where is a will, there is a way. But a lot of ways are really uncomfortable for many normal people.

People who speak languages with a gender system don't necessarily give that much thought. Dutch, for example, has grammatical genders (masculine, feminine, and neuter), but we don't really think of these words as "male" or "female", and there is no gendered logic to which words are male and which are female. A cow and a bull both have the same grammatical gender, for instance.

And some languages have as many as 20 grammatical genders. Obviously those have precious little to do with the usual biological genders.

Is this... actually a thing that happens? What "unpronounceable" pronouns are you talking about being "pushed"?

Edited by Perseus on Mar 28th 2023 at 10:31:13 PM

Vrxuw, apparently, which is the Dutch word for woman with the "o" replaced by an "x", apparently derived from womxn.

There is the Xe/Xem or Xe/Xir pronouns that I'm not 100% sure how to pronounce (I assume the X is pronounced like a Z?), haven't really run into anyone in person who had those pronouns in-person.

Now, I'm speaking from a place of privilege here, I'd use such pronouns if requested.

But my opinion on the Xe/Xem pronouns is that they sound a bit too much like a word out of an alien language. And I do mean that literally, using "Z" or "X" gratuitously is a science fiction trope to indicate that a word is of alien origins.

I'm also of the opinion that They/Them pronouns adequately work as non-gendered pronouns and feel very natural to use as such.

Again, just my opinion speaking as an outsider.

And that's a pronoun? Huh.

I mean, speaking as a simple they/them nonbinary person, I have my opinions on particular neopronouns, but... they're irrelevant. My opinions don't matter. If someone wants to be referred to with any given set of pronouns I'm going to show basic respect and refer to them with those pronouns.

Edited by Perseus on Mar 28th 2023 at 11:25:01 PM

There aren’t really weird new pronouns in French (there’s "iel" for non-binary people but it’s very fringe), but there’s something called "inclusive writing" where you write the accords of both genders with a · in-between. For example lecteur·trice·s (lecteur + lectrices, readers) or tous·te·s (tous + toutes, all/every). It’s frequently used in official documents or political tracts, but since it’s more or less unpronounceable, some have started to use hybrid forms that flow a little better orally like "lecteurices" or "toustes". Which I honestly prefer but isn’t always applicable.

As for the English "they", it can be a little confusing if you’re not sure whether it’s refering to one of several people, but you know, context.

Edited by Lyendith on Mar 28th 2023 at 2:23:36 PM

I think that's a little above my level of French atm.

And yes, I think they/them is fine. No need to overcomplicate things, really.

There is something similar in Arabic, when for example you can write (ة)تلميذ

(تلميذ being male student, while تلميذة is the female one)

But that too is only for official documents, and for manuals and the like.

Edited by jawal on Mar 28th 2023 at 5:45:40 PM

Arabic also has the additional complication of dual nouns in addition to singulars and plurals (all of which are naturally gendered).

Actually, I will say that is a point of strength for a language. Because it is more concrete.

If you say They did it, I do not know how many of those they you are talking about .

Now if you say هما I know you are talking about 2 people

or if you say هن or in Spanish Ellas , or in French Elles, then I know we are talking about a group of females.

Just a nitpick, but dual nouns are not gendered.

Edited by jawal on Mar 29th 2023 at 8:18:20 AM

The basic context of a sentence tells you that. It's hardly rocket science.

Edited by Perseus on Mar 29th 2023 at 7:17:47 PM

Ah right, أنتما and هما are both gender-neutral.

Dutch seems to have settled on just using the masculine word as the neutral term for occupations, or finding neutral words in some cases. The gendered articles remain the same though, since they are only weakly gendered anyway.

Speaking of "iel", I have no idea what the direct object form is. I assume the indirect object is "lui", because it's the same for masculine and feminine, and all others are "iel".