Final Fantasy X

Strongly disagree with your opinion on this one. I thought the game did an excellent job of making it the situation, not any one character, who was the heart of every problem.

Lack of Antagonist? did you miss the several thousand ton flying fish? Look more closely you will find it in the cutscenes.

@deathonabun whatever you do DONT miss any of the treasures in the temple it will save you a headache later with Anima

edited 8th Nov '10 10:50:26 PM by stevebat

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.

He meant "antagonist" as in a character whose plans and ambitions act as a foil for the protagonist.

Sin was an antagonist in the same context as Jaws: it's a force of nature.

I wouldn't exactly call Sin natural, but sure.

Umbran Climax◊

Sin/Jecht/Yu Yevon was the central antagonist while the Maesters of Yevon (especially Seymour) were the villains. Neither of them were traditional main villains like Kefka, Sephiroth, or Kuja but all contributed to the situation of Spira which was, as King Zeal said, the big conflict.

edited 9th Nov '10 7:18:33 AM by ManwiththePlan

Yu Yevon was more an ideal than a character.

He represented the horrors of clinging to the past so heavily.

Umbran Climax◊

Yeah, but he/it was the driving force behind Sin.

Im not really sure you could count Sin as a true antagonist. I mean, he's not really a proper character, more like a natural disaster. Seymour and Mika are the closest things to an antagonist the game has.

Regarding XIII being optimistic: Wah? This is the one where everything the heroes do plays right into the villain's hands until the end, where everyone falls into despair every 5 minutes, And where 2 main characters kind of die (sort of) at the end. Blowing things up and hoping for the best is pretty much all the characters could do in that game, and apart from Snow, who as I mentioned earlier is a complete fucktard, none of them are too optimistic about their chances.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

Yunalesca could be counted, technically, as the Big Bad. Sin is like the ancient out-of-control weapon, but Yunalesca is the one that controls its can. The reason the Maesters agree to her terms even a thousand years after the fact is because she's the axis upon which the entire Grand Pilgrimage turns. She's the one who gives the summoners the Final Aeon, so pissing her off puts the only known way of beating Sin (in addition to the vast empire they've amassed) in mortal jeopardy.

Ah, forgot about Yunalesca. I think Mika is a better fit as the Big Bad, seeing as how he's the guy running Yevon.

edited 9th Nov '10 9:06:13 AM by OmegaKross

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

^^^ Er, haven't beaten XIII yet (PS 3 burned out trying to play Dragon Quest VIII (and incidently, Final Fantasy X) and I haven't gotten a replacement yet. XIII and a couple of other games were the only ones that I made significant progress in and I'm reluctant to repurchase any more of them for the 360). I know there haven't been any real spoilers made about it yet, but please tag any future ones.

edited 9th Nov '10 9:11:31 AM by Customer

Ahem. Pardon the late arrival but I just want to weigh in on teh Tidus vs. Zidane topic from the other page.

Zidane is more optimistic than Tidus. But that doesn't matter. The problem is they are both generally cheerful but in different ways.

Zidane is smiley and happy but he doesn't shove it in your face. He doesn't go around doing hip hip hoorays.

Tidus, meanwhile, does stuff like this. Skip to 3:00

There's nothing wrong with an energetic hero. There IS something wrong with an obnoxious hero though. I do not want to suffer through having an overly loud moron as a main protagonist.

The most outlandish things Zidane does in comparison is grabbing a girl's butt and commenting on it.

Tidus makes me facepalm myself with almost everything he says in the first half of the game. That's why I don't like him.

Also Zidane had a lot of issues to cope with too.

Also I really liked the voice-acting in FFX. And both Mr. Taylor and Ms. Burress get better in X-2.

edited 9th Nov '10 10:03:06 AM by Nikkolas

D'oh, sorry customer. I thought we'd all just decided to drop spoiler tags. At least I didnt mention which characters I was referring to. Spoilers will be tagged in future.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

and as mentioned earlier, his obnoxiousness is the entire reason he's able to say "fuck tradition!" break the vicious cycle that Spira is in.

edited 9th Nov '10 10:16:06 AM by Blissey1

XP granted for befriending a giant magical spider!

Well Auron could have said that too if the narrative didn't demand Tidus be forced on us.

Sadly Auron decided not to tell anyone anything and just let Tidus rattle off what he already knew and thought.

edited 9th Nov '10 10:23:29 AM by Nikkolas

^^ Well, yeah, but does he have to be such a douche at the same time?

^^^ Theres another stupid scene where Tidus randomly decides to scream out loud on the steps of Kilika Temple. It gets a highly amusing parody in dissidia.

edited 9th Nov '10 10:26:26 AM by OmegaKross

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

Also this scene.

Seymour to Auron: We Guado are keen to the scent of the Farplane.

-cue Tidus bending over to start sniffing Auron-

Maybe some poor tragically alone person writing this thought this was funny but it just made me think our brave hero should be coloring in a book and fingerpainting rather than trying to save the world.

Also I want to say I really like FFX. One of my favorite games in the series. I think it's a mark of how much I like the game that I rate it as one of my faves in spite of hating Tidus so much.

And for all my complaints about Tidus, a particular scene with him learning something always chokes me up.

edited 9th Nov '10 10:29:22 AM by Nikkolas

Because I dont know how to link:

Request that somebody link to those two scenes I mentioned. The Dissidia one kinda highlights the ridiculousness of randomly screaming in public.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

You know, I used to love Auron until the Fan Dumb ruined him for me.

He's a very generic badass character. If he was the main character of the game, it would be an extremely by-the-book revenge story. Also, he's an extremely flat character - he has zero character development. So instead of the dynamic and unique character of Tidus, we'd get a boring old man that beats things up for revenge for his friends. I like him as he is because he's not the main character, so he doesn't need to have character development like a main character does.

Then again, I get the impression that's the only hero anyone wants anymore. Depth is overrated now.

But see, that's just it. I'm pretty sure the point is that Tidus is obnoxious at first. That's sort of part of his problem. He's overly irreverent and just goes out of his way to try to make light of stuff. Sometimes, it seems like Auron has to just lead him around by the nose so that he'll willingly accomplish things. I'm honestly not sure you're supposed to find his behavior funny. I figured it seemed forced because Tidus is forcing that behavior to cover up his issues, paired with the fact he's not really getting the gravity of what's happening around him.

If memory serves, Tidus breaks the habit of going out of his way to be a douche around the time he understands how seriously screwed up the goings on in Spira are.

I mean, it's fine if a character being obnoxious irritates you, but I just always assumed that was part of his growth as a character and was able to respect it as that.

edited 9th Nov '10 10:38:14 AM by DrPravd

"People are calling me stupid on the internet."

^^ well maybe you're the dumb one here for thinking that.

I like character development just fine. When it's handled well. nothing about Tidus is done well be it his outfit (terrible even by Nomura's lowest standards) or his personality.

You say Auron doesn't develop as a character. That is true. But that's not how it is presented in the game. We know zero about his past with Jecht or Braska and it's only revealed bit by bit as we progress through the game. It all reaches its head in Zanarkand with the flashbacks.

So, it's not like we start off knowing all we'll know about Auron's personality. We learn just as much about him as we do about Tidus as the game progresses.

^ that's a fair point. But it's the same situation as Squall. If they're unlikable jackasses for half the game, it's going to be hard to start liking them when they change.

edited 9th Nov '10 10:52:38 AM by Nikkolas

Here's a question: does anyone know how Tidus was received in Japan? I'm curious if Values Dissonance is at work regarding the seemingly polarized opinions fans have of him.

Personally, I'm neutral towards Tidus. On one hand, I like his development and how he's actively challenging Spira's odd sense of tradition. On the other hand, some of his behavior comes off as needlessly childish (somewhat understandable given his issues), but moreover his behavior reminds me of the annoying American tourists  ^*

in other countries, who more or less try to force their attitudes on the locals. I do feel that he gets better later in the game and in Dissidia.

Here's a few things people don't seem to think about:

1. Tidus is not a hero. Tidus had serious mental baggage and a craving for attention. This was deliberately beaten into him by his alcoholic, Memetic Sex God father so that he would become a bigger celebrity than himself. You want to blame someone for Tidus being an outlandish attention whore? Blame his failure of a father.

2. Tidus is not a hero. Imagine how much shit you (or a dear friend of yours) bitches about on a daily basis. The weather, lines at the grocery store, the boss at work, some asshole who cut you off in traffic, etc. Now, imagine how much bitching you would do if you were a rising celebrity, finally living the dream you'd worked your entire life for—and then BAM, you're thrown into this alien world where you're a nobody again, everybody believes in a stupid tradition you never heard of, and on top of that, looks at you crosseyed whenever you identify who you are and where you're from. Oh, and everything's trying to kill you.

3. Tidus is NOT a hero. He isn't trained to be disciplined in the face of danger, think level-headedly in battle, or do any sort of fighting in the first damn place. Frankly, the fact that his first instinct when he finds out "the summoner" (later identified as Yuna) is in danger is to rush in to save her puts him a step higher than the apathetic everymen that many post-modern heroes are.

4. TIDUS IS NOT A HERO. Until the end of the game, that is, where there's a stark contrast in his attitude and behavior. I'm sure that it may be too little, too late for some players who write him off as annoying and waited the whole game to see him die an agonizing, fiery death, but I hate all this talk about "I wish he wasn't the main character". You want a badass character to cherish and admire? Pick the other hundred or so RPG protagonists out there. That isn't the story we're dealing with here.

In Japan, he's considered one of the greatest videogame protagonists of all time. At one time (not sure about post-Compliation), he was even higher than Cloud.

edited 9th Nov '10 11:01:30 AM by KingZeal

Tidus' issues are more with his mother. In fact, in the Farplane, he has a mini revelation. He recalls his mom doting on Jecht then Jecht actually telling her to go be with Tidus so he didn't cry.

Jecht was an alcoholic and mean but he could have been much worse.

Also Tidus isn't the hero. Yuna is. I think another reason people resent Tidus, as Spoony pointed out, is how the game tries to make it out to be about Tidus when it's really about Yuna.

edited 9th Nov '10 11:06:56 AM by Nikkolas

Saying "it could have been worse" is not a valid statement about Jecht's failure at parenting. If I'm in an accident and have my leg amputated, saying "at least you didn't die" doesn't help. And if I do die, saying, "at least he didn't suffer long" doesn't help either.

I'm not saying that Tidus's mother wasn't a part of his issues, either, but Tidus's resentment is toward his dad. His mother allowed it to happen, so she's just as bad.

And lastly, Tidus and Yuna are both the co-protagonists. I thought we were years past that.

EDIT: Missed this.

But he isn't. The Clergy are slaves to Yunalesca's whim. It's telling that the first thing Mika does when he finds out she's dead is murder himself.

edited 9th Nov '10 11:24:15 AM by KingZeal