The Legend Of Zelda - General Thread

I mean remember, Demise doesn't even say incarnation of hatred in the Japanese version.

It's more about how the demon tribe will rise up and attack Hyrule.

Well, no matter what version we're going with, Demise is just being a dick.

He lost the fight, so he flips the table to keep everyone else from winning.

You then have to start the entire game over again.

I do prefer the idea that Demise's creations will endure and haunt the descendants of Link and Zelda.

It certainly adds a generational aspect to the series that I quite enjoy.

I take it at face value: It's a never-ending struggle between the same three people as they perpetually reincarnate, throughout Hyrule's history.

I believe he says in Japanese that his hatred and grudge will be reincarnated quite literally.

I also believe the Historia and Encycopedia do single out Ganondorf as the manifestation of the curse of Demise as well.

With what Demise had said to make the curse of hatred: the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero then his hate for them will follow attacking no matter what, like with vaati wanting Zelda's lightforce or malladus wanting Zelda's body, as they are both under the curse of Demise to do such things.

Yeah does it even have to be Ganondorf specifically? Like, technically Vaati was here first, maybe he's actually Demise's reincarnation.

And even when Ganondorf is dead other villains show up like the aforementioned Malladus.

Demise can be seen as a Creation Myth story. Who is to say that everything told in Skyward Sword is exactly how it happened in the past?

Demise is said to appear differently to each person, usually in the form of something very unsettling. And for us, the player, that something is Ganondorf. A monstrous humanoid figure with hair literally made of flames and a scar that resembles the gem of Ganondorf.

We assume that Demise's curse led to Ganondorf because Ganondorf aka Ganon has been the longest running villain in the legends told. But it isn't Ganon that made the most appearance. It's the army of monsters that we associate Ganon with. Vaati controls the Moblins and Darknuts before Ganon. And Malladus had control over the Bublins, Minblins, and Big Blins long after Ganon was dead.

In short, Demise is merely a legend told to explain the origins of evil. It may be true, or it may be not. Tears of the Kingdom suggests that there is a possibility that the legend of Demon King Demise could be a distorted story of Demon King Ganondorf instead. After all, he looked a lot like Demise when he became full demon, and the red hair could have been mistaken for literal flames. And the Imprisoning War did resemble the Ancient Battle of Skyward Sword.

Honestly, I would rather have Demise be the ancient legend that no one could truly prove to be real. And he shouldn't be confirmed. He should just be a cautionary tale of Demon Kings and how he inspired future Demon Kings.

Edited by Shadao on Mar 29th 2024 at 10:00:32 AM

On the BOTW critic, while I loved both games to bits I do agree that I missed the equipment-based exploration unlock of the pre-Skyward Sword games. But at the same time I don't want something too linear^i.e.with the dungeon order strictly enforced either!

What I would love would be something like Hollow Knight does, where there's almost always two ways to progress. Or failing that, ALTTP's half-linearity half-freedom thing with Dark World dungeons^note Order enforces 1→4→6→7, 4→5 and 3→7 but still leaves some freedom on when to tackle dungeons 2, 3 and 5; and makes 5 actually easier if you complete 6 first can be a good fallback.

But I don't see either of them happening if BOTW/TOTK's "climb anywhere" approach is kept. That could still work with environment hazards. Like, what if the Snowquill, Desert Voe and Fireproof armor sets were dungeon rewards?

In Breath of the Wild, I could actually imagine an alternate version of the game where the Sheikah Slate Runes are dungeon items. Vah Rutah gets you Cryonis, Naboris gets you Magnesis, Medoh gets you Stasis, and Rudania could be re-worked to be Bomb focused.

Mind you, this is imagining a version that instead of being open world, is more of a Majora's Mask sort of thing.

You don't exactly need any of those things to traverse the world, so it's not like replacing the dungeons and putting the powers in them alone would necessitate changing the progression structure. In fact, Majora's Mask itself can be considered open world by some definitions of the phrase.

This is just a pet theory of mine, but I like to think Demise is Ganondorf's father. Someone has to be, and we know he was raised by Koume and Kotake, not his actual parents.

To me, what clinches it in favor of Ganon not being Demise's curse is that there are incarnations of Link and descendants of SS!Zelda/Hylia that never meet Ganon. So the curse can't refer only to him.

Edited by ThriceCharming on Mar 30th 2024 at 5:27:49 AM

so what you're saying is that he's an evil messiah?

I accidentally discovered an easter egg in "Tears of the Kingdom": If you wear one of the "Divine Beast" helms, which at the moment I'm getting from my amiibo, the sage's avatar will wear the helm based on their ancestor as well.

Just because Demise mentioned a curse, does not mean everything in the entire franchise has to be connected to that curse.

But it works so well with why the villains want to do the things that they do as for the most part they go after Zelda or bloodline descendants of the goddess and Ga'dorf is the only one that needs Zelda as a step to his plans but is still apart of the curse to effect Hylia and the work that she did to stop him.

hes a demon lord,his curses are literal

Not every version of Link and Zelda fight Ganon. Most of the time when they do fight Ganon it's because he remained alive, rather than reincarnating. The probably chronologically first incarnation of Ganondorf originates from an era that didn't have its own Link and Zelda.

Whatever Demise meant, the actual cosmology of the series is not anything as clean as "for every Link and Zelda there is a Ganon to antagonize them".

Ghirahim is a demon lord. Demise is the demon king. He's basically the Satan of the Zelda universe.

Incidentally, Nintendo of America really dropped the ball, calling him "Demise." Such a basic bitch moniker. The Italians had the right idea—they called him Mortifer!

See also: in Spanish, Loftwings are Pelícaros (pelican/Icarus). It's so clever.

I always saw Demise's curse as just being the villain version of whatever prophecy bullshit keeps reincarnating a Link and a Zelda all the time.

I feel like the people who complain it strips Ganondork of his agency kind of overlook that he's not the only one bound by some kind of weird fated cycle of reincarnation. Nobody ever really remarks on Link and Zelda lacking agency.

> Ghirahim is a demon lord. Demise is the demon king. He's basically the Satan of the Zelda universe.

they're both demon lords if you really want to get technically

@wooden_ladybug: Yup, I think that's likely partially because there are other replicas of the original champions' helmets available to find in each region, which have the same effect and power up the relevant Sage's Avatar.

Watching the worst bosses videos again, I have a question about the infamous Moldorm.

As well all know, Moldorm recovers all of his health when Link falls off the platform and gets back up, but my question is the reason why: the SNES being unable to keep track of the damage, or the devs wanting to make Moldorm hard?

Remember that Ghirahim is a sword so technically he’s not a demon.

Which puts his whole identity as a self proclaimed demon lord into an interesting light.

I don't think being a sword and a demon is mutually exclusive.