Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
Lies and Violence!
I think so. I did one or two myself last swap.
Since I just got two more for Young Justice, it now has 9. Anyone mind if I give it its own section on the DC page like with CM?
Jogo
I'd be fine with giving Young Justice it's own section on the DC Animation MB page
Edited by jlvs200s on Jan 27th 2024 at 7:35:15 PM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
I'm fine with tropers adding to sandboxes. Also fine with Young Justice getting its own section on DC animation.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay. I am not going to be able this week's batch. I was going to but got busy. Next week's batch will be bigger. Sorry about this.
Edited by Bullman on Jan 27th 2024 at 11:10:14 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
That's fine, do whatever it is you need to do.
- Chef "Red-Leg" Zeff was an infamous pirate who searched the Grand Line for the mythical All-Blue. To accumulate funds, Zeff had his crew return to the East Blue, the tamest of the seas, in order to raid unprotected ships, but refusing to take anybody's food. Saving the young Sanji's life upon finding out he has the same dream, Zeff later uses his plundered fortunes to open the seafaring restaurant, Baratie. While running Baratie, Zeff refuses to turn down those in need of food, being perfectly willing to feed pirates even if it means giving them the energy to continue their crimes. To get Sanji to quit, Zeff orchestrates a plan to ostracize Sanji from the rest of Baratie to convince him to follow his dream of searching for the All-Blue, later giving a mocking yet heartwarming farewell to his apprentice.
Going to be honest while Zeff is cool I don’t think he does anything that impressive jt cunning to be a Magnificent bastard
The closest was having everyone insult Sanju’s food to get him to follow his dreams but that only worked because Sanji overheard him revealing his reasoning after the fact which wasn’t intentional on Zeff’s end
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 28th 2024 at 6:06:34 AM
I think I abstained on that one personally... IIRC the EP referenced his past as a skilled and dark murderer but it's been a minute since I've read Zeff's parts and I don't recall him being spoken of as a super tactical killer or anything.
I re read it. All they say is that he was a vicious pirate whose leg was painted red in the blood of his enemies
So nothing tactical
In all honesty
I say we cut him
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 28th 2024 at 8:15:07 AM
Cut in that case.
People are skeptical of Kidd keeping but I say we wait until we see him again. I think he could bounce back
I lean cut on Zeff as well as he doesn't do anything particularly spectacular compared to other listed characters.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I was also thinking Lucci might need to be cut after his latest performance, but it seems he has bounced back well enough.
Nah Lucci is fine,
He managed to get his way back into the governments good graces and is currently fighting Zoro
Same with Kaku
The only real issue with Lucci I could is him enabling Celestial Dragons
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 28th 2024 at 8:28:58 AM
The wifi here sucks
Leaning cut to Zeff
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
On a prior point, let me get a list compiled, because looking back over Kidd's collective accomplishments and failures really don't impress at all. I think I'm gonna make a formal cut post since his defeat really made it seem like he's not coming back.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
It’s One Piece, if they aren’t explicitly dead in the present then they aren’t dead. I really think we should wait
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Him not being impressive enough in the past I think is worth considering though
So let’s see what you bring up
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 28th 2024 at 8:44:03 AM
Fine. I do think Kidd has his head in the guillotine though, and we're just the executioner waiting to pull the string.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
If you think he doesn’t count then bring up him being unimpressive, that coukd be grounds for removal
My main issue is that his defeat is directly tied to not learning from his past mistakes of recklessness and arrogance. He could come back in theory, but this latest incident is so humiliating for him as a character that he's become a Memetic Loser among the fandom.
Even if he comes back, can Useless Mid ever become Eustace Kidd again?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
You know what?
I changed my mind
Let’s cut Kidd
Anyone in agreement?
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 28th 2024 at 8:54:58 AM
Let me bring up a proper cut post first. Alright, here it is.
Since we are discussing One Piece right now, I do have a cut that I think has been needed for a while especially with fan perception of the character tanking in the aftermath. I'm talking about cutting Eustace Kid from Magnificent Bastard.
His intro arc does his come good, but post time skip sees him offscreen losing an arm to the Red Hair Pirates after challenging one of the Four Emperors right after entering the New World. He doesn't even lose it to Red Hair Shanks himself merely to Shank's right hand man. Kid somewhat makes up for this by forming an alliance with two other pirates crews to go after Shanks. However, one of these crews led by Scratchman Apoo turns out to working for another Emperor named Kaido and sells out Kid's crew after leading them into a trap. Kid jumps directly to fighting another Emperor despite his last defeat, and he is quickly defeated again. He is brutally beaten and thrown in prison. He later escapes but is quickly recaptured while trying to help his best friend.
Luffy manages to free them, and Kid refuses at first but later joins an alliance with him. While disguised and infiltrating Kaido's territory, Kid sees Luffy causing a ruckus and breaks his own disguise to attack Apoo. Kid bounces back a bit at this point by helping Luffy and the alliance in an all out war and helps Trafalgar Law defeat the Emperor Big Mom. It was at this point he was proposed and up voted as he had hit a high point in the story for himself.
The real reevaluation comes from the following chapters. He gets angry that only Luffy is named as a new Emperor rather than himself, and goes off to challenge Shanks again all by himself. This leads to the infamous chapter where Kid is about to wipe out a fleet of Shank's weaker allies with his most powerful attack, only for Shanks to foresee the result and one shot Kid with his strongest attack. Shanks then has his giant allies sink Kid's ship with all its crew on board. No one knows for sure if Kid is dead, but the narration states it is the utter defeat of the Kid Pirates.
Initial discussion after this incident was a wait-and-see, but I can't ignore the aftermath this had on Kid's perception amongst the One Piece fandom. Kid directly suffers this humiliating defeat because he doesn't learn anything from his character flaws. He's far too reckless and got destroyed by both Shank's crew and Kaido beforehand after attacking them with just his crew despite it being obvious he wasn't ready. This, in turn, stems from his even greater character flaw of arrogance. He loves mocking and hurting those weaker than himself, and his Darwinist principles inspire him to go out and seek the toughest opponents without putting any proper strategy in other than brute force. His smug demeanor grows after needing help defeating an Emperor alongside a far more intelligent ally and he is deeply insulted only Luffy gets the Emperor position from it after Luffy defeats another Emperor on his own. Even his tactics are fundamentally flawed, as Kid relies far too much on his Devil Fruit's magnetic powers rather than trying to ever use the powerful Haki he has at his disposal, which every powerful character in-universe acknowledges as being the true power.
This all in turn has led to the fans completely turning on Eustace Kid as a character with him recently solidifying himself as a Memetic Loser with the nickname of Useless Mid. Sure, he can in theory come back, but his absolute refusal in the past to learn from his mistakes and character flaws makes me unable to see how Useless Mid can ever bounce back to Eustace Kid provided he ever returns at all. All in all, I'm voting for a cut.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jan 28th 2024 at 9:34:24 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
In light of this cut Kidd
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 28th 2024 at 10:18:03 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Cut I guess, and also put an entry for him in Character Perception Evolution because this seems like a prime example.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Not the Eye
Cut Zeff and Useless Mid
Cut Chef Zeff and Eustass Kidd.
So, are we going forward with the idea of tropers adding entries to the sandboxes?
Edited by Bullman on Jan 27th 2024 at 11:45:52 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread