Pandemics and Epidemiology (COVID-19, monkeypox, etc.)

Yeah, hence the inverted commas. They've gone back to the original definition of clinically vulnerable. At one point, the government really narrowed down who qualified as "vulnerable" for a "fourth" booster, but the autumn roll out with the flu jab has gone back to the original clinical list, which is more in line with the first two vaccinations and the annual flu rollout. So, there will be a lot of people getting a fourth dose this winter, but it's not the entire population.

Maybe because in 2021 almost everyone believed (or wished) that with a widespread vaccination the world could finally get past the emergency, but not only it didn't happen, but the virus is still churning out variants at a fast pace. So many people think they've been lied to, because communicating science is difficult. After all, there's still people thinking masks are useless because in early 2020 several scientists said they were unnecessary. It's difficult to change anyone's mind.

And to be fair, having to boost twice or thrice a year but still needing to mask and avoid people for the foreseeable future is not a great outcome. (Also, I don't care what anyone says, I'm not going to wear a mask everywhere all the time for the rest of my days)

By the way what's up with China? Seems like they dropped each and every measure almost as a "fuck you" to the West that kept saying they were going to do zero-Covid indefinitely. So now they have the worst of both worlds, they lost two years and still are going to have millions of deceased and crippled people. Hey, at least those imbecilic zero-Covid zealots can no longer pretend China was acting that way for the good of their own population. What's the point of being a dictatorship if you can't enforce a vaccine mandate and can't use these two years to build more hospitals and vaccine centres?

CCP gonna CCP.

Are we not past the emergancy in the developed world? The only COVID hangover I’m seeing are the occasional person wearing a mask in public, me being more thorough about washing my hands, some more understanding of workplace sickness, better remote working availability and some medical places asking people to mask up (which I’m sure they’ve wanted to do for years).

We’ve no vaccine passports, no travel restrictions, the booster has been rolled into the regular flu jab, there’s certainly been no lockdowns.

Sure vaccination didn’t end up meaning people can’t get it or that the virus was wiped out, but for the bit of the world I’m in it feels like the emergancy is over.

What locations have high vaccine uptake, full population booster rollout and mask mandates?

Edited by Silasw on Dec 30th 2022 at 11:12:55 AM

Looks like all concerned countries are enacting strict requirements for mainland Chinese to enter through their countries (includes HK/Macau).

John Lee wants the countries to reconsider entry requirements for HK nationals.

Not everything is about the West, it's more then likely that it's just an incompetent reversal in the face of widespread (and arguably unprecedented) degrees of opposition. I doubt "sticking it to the West" was anywhere close to the top of their priorities when determining how they'd end it.

Wasnt there mass protests going on in China against zero COVID policy at the end of last month. I assume that probably got CCP to accept that they couldn't continue with the policy for long.

Edited by xyzt on Dec 31st 2022 at 12:27:26 AM

Yes! That was exactly it! This is basically a move to appease the population. Unfortunately, they don't have the wherewithal to deal with an actual outbreak (hence the whole zero-Covid policy in the first place, I imagine), and their insistence on a homegrown vaccine is not helping either. But now that they have finally accepted the prospect of dealing with an actual widespread outbreak, they are pivoting on that last one as well, and are now seeking Western vaccines.

As far as I know, the Sinovac is as effective as the western vaccines, but the problem is that it takes 3-4 doses per person to get the initial immunity, which is not a good mix with China's large & aging population.

Wouldn't that make it less effective? I mean, taking more doses to reach the same place sounds like it just doesn't do as good a job.

Though I suppose it depends on what metric of effectiveness one is operating under...

Well, it sounds like it is effective as long as you have enough time to get four doses.

But that means it's not as effective per dose.

Some would argue it's the final result that counts.

Those people would be wrong to argue that then.

"My old favorite, the pistol! Does it still kill in three shots?"
"Sure does! As long as those three shots are preceded by eight other ones!"

If the "initial immunity" we're talking about is the first set-of-two shots from the original rounds of vaccinations, that means it takes four Sinovac shots to get the same results two of Moderna or Pfizer would get you, and that's without even starting on boosters and/or Delta-Omicron vaccines.

Well Chinese-backed media is doing a "what the hell" editorials against countries that advocate for extra requirements for Chinese travelers to enter their territory.

It's like arguing one employee who takes a month to do a task that another employee can do in a day is just as effective as the latter.

Especially since the timeframe between shots is about the same as the other vaccines.

It's not as effective if it takes twice as long to get the same level of immunity.

Edited by Zendervai on Dec 31st 2022 at 11:03:53 AM

Alright, point taken. Though at least people who have gotten through all four vaccinations are now properly vaccinated, right?

I mean, western vaccines are now bivalent for better protection against Omicron and related variants. Unless Sinovac also has that now (maybe they do? I don't know) I wouldn't say that's as good, either.

It doesn't, iirc.

Edited by M84 on Jan 1st 2023 at 3:46:18 AM

Also, since the CCP discouraged western vaccines until now, I figure that's going to bleed over to public opinion of them now that the CCP changed course, especially the elderly who'll need it the most.

Spain, France, India and the Philippines announced new testings for mainland Chinese traveling there.

Like to see more pro-CCP media cry wolf.

Also hearing from Taipei that they're willing to help with the COVID-19 cases in the mainland.

Edited by Ominae on Jan 1st 2023 at 2:04:44 AM

So... I hesitate to even ask this without being labeled an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist, but has anybody here had any side effects from one of the COVID vaccines that lasted past the usual "day of/after"? Like, months down the road? I'm trying to determine whether a recurring condition I've had for the last couple years was one that I always had and the vaccine had nothing to do with it, or if the vaccine exacerbated it, and wanted to see if anyone had similar experiences. (to my knowledge I've never gotten COVID itself)

The symptom I'm experiencing is intermittent left arm muscle soreness and random body shaking, as well as random heart palpitations.

And before you say "talk to your doctor", I have. Repeated times. Ran numerous tests (MRI, blood work, ultrasound, ECG, Ziopatch), all came back largely fine. But the symptoms still remain.

That said, I have been diagnosed with GERD (heartburn) and a minor hiatal hernia and I've read that both can cause those symptoms above, so that's why it's inconclusive whether it's from that or the vaccine or both.

Edited by speedyboris on Jan 2nd 2023 at 6:22:33 AM

Wow, that's not good. I hope you get better soon.

And no, no side effects that I can tell (unless an increased susceptibility to the flu is a side effect).