Political theory spitballing.

As Artic Dog mentioned in the Quick questions thread, we really don't have a political theory thread for bouncing ideas about government.

Much like the Sci-Fi Weapons and Sci-Fi Military Tactics this thread is intended to be very broad so don't feel obliged to stick to topic.

I'm gonna kick things off with the Holy Roman Empire. INSPACE!!!!

So the idea is that the HRE was very stable, lasting for about a thousand years and wasn't particularly aggressive. With so many members deciding who would attack what and when was a herculean task of politicking and persuasion. On the other hand, attack one member and you'd end up provoking the entire mess. At the same time, members were more or less allowed to do as they pleased. The HRE had a number of free cities and republics under it functioning about as well as any medieval nation.

Story-wise, after the initial FTL diaspora Humanity has finally found it's borders with extra-terrestrial nations. Amid widespread xenophobia, humanity created the Imperium, a kind of HRE/UN fusion to defend all of humanity in the case of genocidal war. There's even a Royal Family but they're intended to be a figurehead and rallying point in the case of political turmoil.

Most of the vassal states, however, are democratic in one form or another and are free to do their own thing.

Thoughts?

Edited by Belisaurius on Dec 17th 2019 at 5:37:41 AM

So, are you suggesting an electoral limited monarchy ruling over a decentralized federation of feudal states? In space?

The decentralized federal part is probably inevitable, depending upon the nature of the FTL available in this universe. If the speed of communication across human inhabited space is similar to that across the HRE (ie, weeks if not months), then yes, localities will be largely independent and economically self-sufficient.

The part that has to be justified is the feudal aspect. The higher the population density within each stellar system, the less likely this is. One person simply cannot effectively govern millions of citizens effectively, and if they don't rely on some form of democracy, then they will have to invent some other method of handling the complexity of a modern society. And whatever form of government the local system adopt for themselves, they will almost certainly want to reproduce at the inter-stellar level.

It also depends on who their competitors are, and how they organize themselves. If some telepathic hive mind species capable of coordinating the activity of a trillion members at once comes along, your HREIS isn't going to do so well.

I should have been more clear about this but most of the vassal states are actually democracies with lots of leeway in governing themselves.

Every union, confederation, or federation that I am aware of has always reproduced the same form of governance at every level from local to the central government. If most of the local systems are democracies, then I think it's very likely that the "Emperor" will be a monarch in name only, elected by popular representation and no unchecked powers. Basically a president who is called by the title "Emperor". And the Imperial Diet will be elected by popular representation as well.

Unless by "democracy" you are not referring to a system where nearly every adult has the right to vote? In that case, whatever arrangement you envision for the local governments will also apply to the central one.

Since this is sci-fi, you could have the bureaucracy or "deep state" being run by an advanced AI, which in turn could have more practical power than the human government (and depending upon how reliable it is, most people might actually be ok with that).

The HRE had several Free Cities and Republics under it.

Yes, but they were a minority, and the right to vote was tightly restricted. Keeping down the masses becomes inherently harder when advanced technology is widely accessible.

Doesn't matter, it still suggests you can have different forms of government on different layers of government.

Does matter. Democracy is a very complex process which creates a very heavy decision burden. A few exceptions which aren't fully exceptions is one thing, but an emperor trying to rule over multiple full functioning democracies is going to rapidly exceed his ability to deliver effective management.

But that's the beauty of am HRE style liege-vassal relationship. So long as the taxes and soldiers come in the vassal can mostly do as they please. Heck, HRE members could even annex other HRE members. That's how Prussia happened.

That only worked because each locality was more or less no more complex than their neighbors, and no more complex than the office of the Emperor was able to handle. They didn't have full democracies (in the modern sense of the term) back then. The Empire only works as a self-governing entity so long as the central authorities are able to administer trade relations and settle disputes. If they can't provide those services, they are better off with no central authority at all.

Seriously?Did you not read my premise?

Well, it's your world, dude. Do as you like with it, but I put my two cents in.

I have an idea for a constitutional theocracy. It does sound like an oxymoron, but I imagine it looking something like a constitutional monarchy, only with a high priest/pope/patriarch whatever as the head of state. To serve in the government, one must a member of the state religion.

Perhaps, there is tolerance for other faiths in the sense that they aren't actively suppressed and can worship freely and in peace, but are prohibited from serving in the government or any other high public office.

I see it as an absolute theocracy gradually transitioning towards democracy.

Tricky, but plausible. The main thing you need to prevent is the "God said so, your argument is irrelevant". It functionally kills free thinking and validates tyranny.

You need a dogma that encourages debate, similar to Buddhism, as well as rules for deposing an incompetent or corrupt leader, similar to Mandate of Heaven.

Some might argue that Iran is already this. Tunisia bears a look at too, as a functioning democracy whose constitution is based on a certain understanding of Islam.

The whole 'theocracy transitioning to democracy' thing makes me wonder if it'd be possible for something similar to happen to a Military Junta.

One of my interstellar alien empires in Stellaris is organized as a Stratocracy, in which the military and civilian government are effectively one and the same, and full citizenship is granted only to enlisted service members. The thing I could never decide on, though, is the level of democracy. I had always assumed there was a limited degree of democracy at work, in the sense that the leader - the General Attendant - had to be elected every few years by an officer's Junta. On reflection, though, I'd need to think of a way this system could be sustained in an interstellar government without a General Attendant eventually just rewriting the rules and giving themselves a term-for-life or stacking the officer's Junta with loyalists who'll vote for them every time.

It should be pointed out that, this being an interstellar society, there is of course a degree of federalization, with sectors being run by governors. What I'm not sure about is if there should be layers of democracy, with the governors being elected by full citizens (who in this society are defined as active military servicepeople) who in turn elect the Junta, who in turn elect the General Attendant; or if they'd spurn the idea of democracy altogether, since culturally and historically among this race, the more militaristic but disciplined and collectivist societies usually came out on top of individualistic and/or pacifistic ones, so it's generally considered common sense that you have to obey orders and be prepared to fight if called upon.

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Jan 1st 2020 at 7:29:26 PM

They can do both. More than one human society has had two leadership structures, one during war, and the other during times of peace. I could see a society in which junior officers vote on the election of their officers, yet are expected to obey them without question during times of emergency.

So, I'm fleshing out a political system in my space opera setting. The main country is a democratic federation, and of course has a legislature. Most modern real word legislatures are either bicameral or unicameral, but I think a space setting makes for a good opportunity to explore other models like tricameralism or a legislature with four chambers.

I'm wondering, how specifically it would work? My reasoning for having more than two chambers is that given to scale of galactic civilizations, there would likely to be many more interests and groups who need a voice or representation and a way to balance of their interests.

I haven't gone into the specifics of the roles of each chamber or how they're chosen, etc.

Hmm. Well, there could be one chamber based on equal population based districts, one based on homogeneous territories, and a third appointed notables. If you want a fourth, how about a repealing chamber?

Well, in the US our bicameral legislature operates at two different scales: there is the Senate where each senator represents a large area (states), and the House with more members each of whom represent smaller districts. To add another chamber, you need only go smaller still: thousands of members each of whom represent a small locality.

Edited by DeMarquis on Jan 16th 2020 at 11:23:37 AM

Well, I think that a space federation would have a couple of levels between the central government and the star systems just for the ease of administration and delegating power.

Perhaps each star system would be a part of a sector or cluster, and each sector received equal representation in the Senate. The next level would be for representing star systems, and maybe the last level is for individual planets.

I'm not really sure how logical star sectors actually are in space. I find it more likely that we have individual star systems and individual planets, as well as individual nations of said planet (or at least, a top 3 of some sorts).

Unless your interstellar colonization is extremely clustered of course. If you operate from earth-likes (with the majority population) that mine and establish in the surrounding systems (with the minority) and earth-like planets are very far apart, then you might think it's better to simply call the whole thing a "sector".

Well, there isn't one galaxy spanning empire in my setting, so many of the nations probably only span across a few systems at most.