Saturnian Society

I've been toying around with an idea for a proposed novel I could be writing in the future. My idea is for my novel to take place on Saturn. Not The Moons of Saturn, the planet itself.

I chose this idea because I like very exotic settings in general. Basically, human society is living on large floating constructs above Saturn's turbulent sea of clouds, each housing a domed environment mimicking Earth. These constructs range in size varying from 5 km to 100 km, and the largest of these are referred to as "sky continents". They drift about in the planet's atmosphere, and transport between them are done by specialized airships.

I also came up with a concept called "storm riders". These are people who bravely dive into Saturn's clouds with small flying vehicles to retrieve water molecules from them, having to contend with fierce lightning storms, ferocious 1,400 km/h winds, as well as the increasing pressure and temperature. To them, safety is thrown out the window to ensure the sustainability of their civilizations.

I chose Saturn as a setting because of its spectacular ring system, which would look impressive in the sky, as well as only having about 7% stronger gravity than Earth, so it wouldn't pose too much of a health issue on humans.

So what do you think?

It's quite intriguing, and everything you've said is at least plausible, if not necessarily likely, but exploring the unlikely is what science fiction is all about.

One issue facing these Saturnians is the availability of energy. It's a long way from the Sun, and solar power isn't nearly as effective there as on Earth. The average temperature of Saturn's surface atmosphere is -178 C, so you'd need some way to keep everyone warm. Saturn has temperature variations that drive its weather systems, so wind power might be the way to go (although I'd have nuclear power either as backup or as a primary source). Deeper down, it'd be warmer, but see below.

You also have to consider the atmospheric pressure that would allow for stable flotation. It wouldn't be at the "surface"; it'd be quite a bit deeper, and you'd most likely be looking at several Earth atmospheres of pressure. (There's a reason we don't have aerial cities on our world.) This environment would be as hostile for people as an underwater city, with death in seconds for anyone whose pressure suit or habitat failed. Unlike a rocky planet, "terraforming" it would be impossible for anything short of a Type II civilization.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 14th 2019 at 7:00:46 AM

This might actually work better on Jupiter, because of the internal heat Jupiter generates. Jupiter also possesses a much more powerful magnetic field than Saturn, which might also be tapped as a source of energy. Then again, Saturn has Titan, the moon famous for its petroleum seas, which makes an obvious industrial base.

Edited by DeMarquis on Jun 14th 2019 at 8:08:26 AM

Well, my plan is that the civilizations don't solely rely on the Sun, as it's not really feasible at the distance. While the domes are clear to allow natural sunlight in, they'll be equipped with a powerful overhead light source of sorts that acts as an "artificial sun", creating ideal conditions for Earth plants and animals to thrive in. These lights will be in sync with the day-night cycle of the planet, becoming dimmer in twilight until turning off completely for the night and vice versa.

The civilizations will have two sources of energy; wind power and nuclear fusion. The former is usually used for living accommodations while the latter is used for maintaining vital power to keep them operational. Hydrogen from the atmosphere is sucked into fusion reactor cores where it creates other elements needed for resources, while the plasma generated is used for thrust to keep them afloat. As you can imagine, they would be dotted with numerous wind turbines all over.

The civilizations would need to stay above the cloud decks where the winds are less strong and so that the lightning doesn't wreak havoc on vital systems. They will be located within the clear haze layer of Saturn where atmospheric pressure would be about 0.5 to 1 atm. Artificial heat will be generated inside the structures to combat the freezing outside temperatures.

The airships on the other hand will be very durable, as they'll be built to withstand strong winds, pressures of up to 150 atm, and temperatures up to 200 C. This will allow them to survive deeper into the atmosphere below the cloud decks into a region where hydrogen begins to liquefy, a region I dubbed "the Saturnian Abyss". Although this is usually an immediate death zone where the ships' structural integrity begins to falter and evaporate, so they can't stay down there for very long.

I hope I'm making reasonable points here.

You're making excellent points, and either have done your research or have a good layman's knowledge of the science involved. I contend one point: flotation at anything resembling Earth's atmospheric pressure is highly problematic for anything with the mass of a city. The balloons you'd need would be larger than the city itself even if you loaded them with pure hydrogen.

You'd get a lot more operational efficiency if you floated the cities lower down, at 2 or 3 bars of pressure, but of course that puts a lot of strain on your environmental systems. It's a tradeoff, but you'd have to have the cities pressure-sealed regardless, since you want the Earthlike atmosphere to stay inside and the Saturnian atmosphere outside. That said, giant transparent domes at more than a few bars start to run into materials science limitations.

I like the idea of siphoning atmospheric hydrogen for fusion: it's practical, you have an endless fuel supply, and you get all the power you could possibly need. I take issue with the idea that you can perform nucleosynthesis of heavier elements with such a reactor. The temperatures and pressures you need to achieve to initiate helium or carbon fusion are much, much higher than for hydrogen, and probably not sustainable with any technology we can imagine. Again, though, it's science fiction, so you get to play around with ideas like that.

^note The heaviest element you can create with exothermic fusion is iron. Anything heavier than that takes more energy to create than it generates. We used to think that the universe's heavy elements were created in supernovas, as massive stars in their death throes can undergo incredible feats of fusion, but new science says that's not the case. Most of those elements remain trapped in the degenerate cores of such stars, get converted to neutron star matter, or fall into black holes. Rather, the main source of heavy elements is neutron star mergers, which are some of the most violent events in the universe. I cannot imagine any way to recreate such conditions in a manmade device.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 14th 2019 at 11:29:03 AM

@Fighteer Unfortunately at 2 to 3 bars of pressure (based on atmospheric diagrams I've seen), this would put the cities directly inside Saturn's cloud decks where they're susceptible to destructive winds and lightning. As much as I would like to use balloons of a sort for flotation, this won't be an option sadly since I want to keep the cities above the cloud decks and safe from destruction. I'll have to use an alternative source of flotation, either continuous thrust or anti-gravity technology.

And yeah, the reason I came up with nucleosynthesis is because being on a gas giant, Saturn obviously lacks metals and other elements that we humans take for granted. While my lore isn't complete yet, the basic gist of it is that I plan for the Saturnian society to be completely independent from Earth after a serious falling out over Saturn's moon Titan and its petroleum resource. This lead to the Saturnians being cut off from metal supplies from Earth, forcing them to manufacture the elements entirely from fusion. I can at least place the upper limit at iron since even stars can't fuse that.

@DeMarquis The main issue with using Jupiter though is its strong gravity, which is 153% stronger than Earth. That's really harsh for humans in the long term, and it makes even basic movement a tiring chore. The other gas giants by comparison have mild gravity that's close to Earth.

I'm really wondering about the technology that lets them perform that kind of fusion, though. The energy required to initiate fusion increases exponentially as you move up the periodic table. We can barely manage to sustain the conditions for deuterium-tritium fusion in our best efforts today.

I'm still trying to find a way to figure that out without resorting to "handwave magic" of sorts. I'll admit that I'm not well versed into the more intricate details of science, only the bare basics, and I'm only an amateur astronomer at best.

It's Saturn for cloud cities, then. But Fighteer is right, if they have the technology to fuse atoms heavier than hydrogen, the importing raw materials from anywhere else in the Solar System should not be a barrier for them. Heck, they might even have a way to dig it out of Saturn's core. Titan also has a metallic core.

Edited by DeMarquis on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:34:37 AM