Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (spoilers obviously)

Credit to Rey she got the second most votes on that poll.

Though shit I never thought I'd see the day when scoring a 4% is actually impressive.

Even Rose earned more than Finn and Poe. Oh, those poor saps who voted for her...

That said, I have my doubts that the current views on Kylo Ren (let alone those from before Rise was released) will be a good indicator of how the character will ultimately go down.

Ever since TFA came out, a lot of the ambiguities and poorly-explained aspects of his behaviour have been written off as mysteries that will be revealed later on down the road. Now that the trilogy is over and it turns out that no, they won't be explained and Kylo Ren really is just that shallow a character, I have my doubts that the character will actually stick in people's mind for a prolongued period of time.

Edited by DrDougsh on Feb 23rd 2020 at 6:18:10 AM

Best Sequel Trilogy Character can only be BB-8.

He be rolling like a boss.

And the comic seems to be trying to make him blameless.

Hes such a schizophrenic character in that no one seems to have a clue what his deal is....

Most people I've seen really don't seem to...care about any of those things honestly. Not even in a "eh yeah that's true but..." Way, before this thread I hadn't really seen anyone know or care about those. Even among his haters who from what I saw mostly saw him as an Incel or hated Reylo.

The only big "Mystery box" was why he turned to the dark side, and maybe why he wanted to be like Vader.

Plus him joining the first order makes sense to me at least, Snoke had reached out to Kylo as TLJ established, and after luke tried killing him he ran off to him as that convinced him Snoke was the mentor he really needed.

As far as what Kylos deal is, to summarize. At first he wanted to bring back the past do to thinking all that must have been great, and become the new Darth Vader. Then he finds out all of those things suck ass and instead moves to "burn it all down"

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 23rd 2020 at 4:27:54 AM

Barriss needed a few episode to have this turn built up too and even Dave admits Barriss was picked cause it would hurt Ahsoka the most 'why does that sound familiar'

Kylo's problem is in concept

He is 'suppose' to be Leia and Han's son who is conflicted by the evil things he does. However because the they want him to be Vader 2.0 he can't show mercy or conflicting morals cause Vader didn't

Basically Ben thinking Luke tried to kill him is fine as a moment for him to lose faith in Luke

Whats his excuse for murdering everybody else? The Comics imply that Snoke is the one that lobed lightning at the Academy and slaughtered the students there... but then Ben gives a I'm an elitist prick speech in the vein of Vegeta so good job Ben in not making everybody think you're an evil nutjob

with Vader you're SUPPOSE to think Luke's crazy for thinking he can redeem Vader. Obiwan is being rational while Luke for all his supposed maturity is still being his idealistic idiot farm boy self

Kylo the characters keep acting like He is redeemable or there is always hope in spite of the fact that Kylo constantly chooses to be evil.

Like the Village scene it be different if Tekka 'knowing Kylo can pull info from a mind' Kills himself and Kylo attempts to show the Villagers mercy only for Hux to be the one that orders NO WITNESSES.

Kylo either needed to be a case of Wholly evil or Him being conflicted needed to be a strong foundation to his character from the start.

but that would require the FO having Morals and Philosophy behind them instead of a Slap Space Nazis on it and call it a day

Shit Grievous is a more well-put character & we're still not sure whether his backstory is the sympathetic version or the unsympathetic version.

It's weird.

Honestly, BB-8 might well go down as the most successful new character introduced in the ST. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still BB-8 merchandise being popularly sold years from now when Rey and Ren have largely disappeared from the shelves outside of fan collectibles.

Not that BB-8 is some great, indelible character. But he's designed to be a cute robot, and well, he gets the job done. What you see is what you get.

It may be true that many people don't specifically think about it. But that kind of thing is what allows characters to actually stick in people's minds for years after they're no longer the hot trend. When the excitement about seeing the ST Star Wars has worn off and we're no longer In the Moment, what is there going to be about Kylo Ren that people will latch onto? Not his personality or his character journey. His visual design? Well, visually he just looks like a bland Darth Vader Clone, so that's not going to make people remember him.

That's why I doubt that Kylo Ren will go down as a popular character. Years from now, nobody outside from committed fans are going to care about him one way or the other. He's certainly never going to be an icon in the same way Darth Vader or Yoda are.

Edited by DrDougsh on Feb 23rd 2020 at 6:29:13 AM

It's sad, when you think about the age politics.

I miss the excitement when after watching TFA, back when we cared about where these characters were going to go to next. To think, after 5 years this is where we are.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 6:33:20 AM

Well, reasons his fans have brought up is mainly the emphasis on how he was an abuse victim by Snoke wich the EU, like the comic with its "Pedo gardener" Snoke seems to be showing more.

And personally I find him quite complex, and a good example of how to develop a villain in a way that isn't just redemption(Albeit he got that too)

Hey, not everyone is "who cares" about the characters, there's tons of people who loved them in TFA and TLJ and are mad as hell with what TROS did with a lot of them.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 23rd 2020 at 4:37:22 AM

Yeah, i rather liked his arc from TFA to TLJ where he has like a villainous version of growing up and learning to be his own man. (Again, really should have made him 21 at the most.)

It's really strange that they never really focused on what Snoke did to corrupt Ben, and instead made it all Luke's fault. Even ignoring how Han raised him.

I mean, when we were all full of wonder and excitement, not bitter disappointment at what TROS did to them.

I like the ST cast, but i dislike what's happened, that's why i'm harsh when criticizing, i do it out of love, if that makes sense. i wanted, Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo Ren, to be characters on the level of the classics, i didn't want them to fail.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 6:41:07 AM

Admitably though I don't think I'll ever be okay with Rey being the new Grand Master.

Sure I accept it but it should have been Luke starting the next generation of Jedi.

I see. And I agree.

I think one of the reasons Rey is disappointing for me is, well, as TROS flipped her arc around...

I'll never get to see the character I deeply loved and had fun analyzing and defending explored in EU and comics and stuff.

Yeah, i confess, i may come off as hating the ST cast and all, but no, i love em, that's why i'm harsh and bitter after TROS.

I feel ya, like i was against Rey being called Mary Sue, but like this movie makes it hard.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 6:42:20 AM

I could forgive Rise for alot of things

but god that ending...

Rise pretty much doubles down on the Rey doesn't Earn anything She has it handed to her and a large chunk of that is JJ's writing style

and the inherent misguided notion that Star wars doesn't have strong female characters

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 8:44:49 AM

I REALLY despise that notion. About Star Wars not having strong female characters.

Regarding outfits, to be fair Han maintained the same basic outfit through every movie, with only variations like Hoth thermal gear or Endor camo (which is admittedly even more toyetic for Environment-Specific Action Figure). Luke definitely had an evolution to his wardrobe, from dusty white desert clothes to tan military fatigues to all-black pants and jacket. Leia had a lot of different outfits but didn't really signify a character point. Rey's "classic" outfit is pretty good, maybe not revolutionary for the Star Wars setting but manages to be distinctive with the longer tunic forming a psuedo-skirt and forearm wraps with exposed shoulders. Finn, Poe and most of the Resistance had underwhelming outfits. Of course, compared to Padme's wardrobe in the prequels, it would be hard to top that.

The issue with TROS, is it tries to do what TFA did with the prequels.

Offer course correction and pander to the loud Fandom.

TFA already had some issues with this, like the lack of any big galactic senate scenes meant context was largely lost. And we couldn't go to any new big places in the galaxy, but overall it still worked, because they were not continuing the story of the PT, They didn't need to kill off Anakin and make a new character Anikkin who's the REAL guy who became Darth Vader and Luke's father, or have some faction come out of nowhere destroy the republic and become the empire rather then the republic become the Empire. It was telling its own original story and characters. So it just needed to avoid doing things the PT did

With TROS, They were directly continuing the story of TLJ, so the course correction route had way more of an impact.

You had Leia

Padme is kinda a sticking point since she's really done dirty in ROTS cause since they cut her plot line from the movie. but She does alot more than people give her credits

Ahsoka is one of the most popular characters

Mara Jade and Jaina Solo 'Dark Nest and what Denning/Traviss did to her notwithstanding'

Kreia is one most unique villains in the franchise

The ST can sit and go we had Lesbians kiss, We're Progressive!

Phasma is stand around and look pretty

Rey is pretty much EVERY classical Heroine trope down to being so morally pure she can channel the power of ALL the Jedi!

Jacen went through a massive series of spiritual and philosophical awakenings and he only achieved the state of oneness when facing off against a Being thats abnormality in the force was like Palpy's and Jacen still defeated him in a more creative way. Healing your opponent to death is a very jedi thing to do.

'granted they had to course correct and give Jacen Anakin's arc since the Baron had no mercy on poor Anakin Solo'

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 9:02:05 AM

I honestly cannot see Rey teaching anyone. The implication was that she was retired, and planned to spend the rest of her days in exile for...reasons.

Luke himself doesn't look significantly younger in the TLJ flashbacks, so it's unlikely it happened an exceptionally long time ago.

I think its been said now that Luke and Kylo's confrontation from TLJ flashback only happened like six years before TFA, when previously it was being suggested as much longer from Han's comments in TFA.

Basically a lot of the ST eras BS is the result of writers ignoring things in the films rather then being the result of trying to explain things in them.

In TFA, The NR seems to be a fairly powerful government that the FO treats as a threat, called a "REGIME! THAT LIES TO THE GALAXY!" when Bloodlines shows the NR are pathetic jokes. With stuff like bloodlines you get the impression they didn't really need to blow the whole capital system up, and could have just invaded.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 23rd 2020 at 5:09:03 AM

With how overly cynical the New EU is 'IE look up Jar Jar's fate'

Rey going into exile and accomplishing nothing would be par the course...

Then Hett Shows up with One Sith 300 years later there is no true Skywalker to stop him boom Days of future past scenario