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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (spoilers obviously)

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Blueace Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 21st 2020 at 6:41:03 PM

Now we know who Yoda will troll next.

Feb 21st 2020 at 6:52:19 PM

[up][up]Fallen Order did the same, knighting Archie Wan Kenobi. Which is why Im convinced he, Ezra, and Ashoka will all run into Baby Yoda eventually, creating a branch separate from Rey.

"That's right kid. Never play an ace when a two will do."
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Feb 21st 2020 at 8:10:46 PM

I feel the need to point out that Luke himself only went back to his Jedi Master one time between getting shitstomped by Darth Vader and kicking Vader's ass, and all he did during that visit was watch his master die.

Characters abruptly being higher-level Jedi 'cause the plot demands it is a time-honored tradition in Star Wars.

Also,

Well, true that... Guess the writers realized that without Luke or Leia being physically present and alive both her and Ben would be toast against Palpy. So Rey had to invoke Eleventh Hour Ex Machina to win.

You say that like Luke has anything to offer to a fight against Palpatine. Dude's fought the guy one time and the only thing he could do was writhe helplessly on the ground while screaming for his dad.

Luke never even learned the "block Force Lightning with lightsaber" thing that apparently every Jedi and their dog can do. Possibly because of the above-mentioned lack of actual training.

To my knowledge, the only people who have ever flat-out beaten Palpatine in a fight prior to the ST are Mace Windu and Anakin Skywalker, and the latter had the element of surprise to make his kamikaze attack successful.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 21st 2020 at 9:17:03 AM

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Feb 21st 2020 at 8:16:16 PM

Okay your basically saying Luke has not improved 1 iota since his encounter with Sidious over 20 years ago & is perpetually stuck at his Return strength.

That sounds like some old bullshit. Even if he's not as Palps level, he'd have to have improved over the course of several decades.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 21st 2020 at 8:23:33 AM

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me
Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Feb 21st 2020 at 8:20:27 PM

He improved himself enough project himself across the galaxy. And enough for Snoke to consider him a threat and not merely an annoyance.

If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Feb 21st 2020 at 8:23:47 PM

Yes, Luke is ambiguously stronger to an unclear extent than he was in Return of the Jedi. But I'm not going to assume based on absolutely nothing that he would totally win a fight against the guy who effortlessly shitstomped him last time they met.

Luke's actual demonstrated performance against Palpatine has not earned the benefit of doubt required to assume that Luke could dunk on Palpatine like it's nobody's business.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 21st 2020 at 9:27:32 AM

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
Feb 21st 2020 at 8:26:02 PM

Inb 4 they retcon that every Luke appearance in the ST, even while training Rey, was a projection and that hes actually been chilling on a beach on whats left of Scarif.

Characters abruptly being higher-level Jedi 'cause the plot demands it is a time-honored tradition in Star Wars.

Right alongside are you plot important? Good, youre a General now.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Feb 21st 2020 at 8:55:24 PM

[up] Thanks to a retcon in Solo, Han did sort of fund the rebellion. That was a stupid plot point.

Feb 21st 2020 at 10:10:47 PM

Part of it, sure.

Rebels has tons of moments like that. If we dont get this one resource in time, the burgeoning Rebellion is doomed!

Its not really all that unique an occurrence.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Feb 21st 2020 at 10:12:59 PM

It's just so weird that we have to accept Han Solo of all people helped fund the rebellion.

Feb 21st 2020 at 10:20:13 PM

His other options were siding with a guy who threatened to kill him just for arriving on the same ship as another guy, so... meh, I guess. I took at him choosing the least awful horse in the race, and then deciding not to get involved further.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 21st 2020 at 10:43:49 PM

I would argue Han Solo was technically in favor of the Rebellion's values, merely a cynical defeatist who figured that they would never win and so he should look out for #1 instead.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Feb 21st 2020 at 10:56:27 PM

I assumed that Han would say, fuck all of you and sell the fuel for himself. Would be a nice set up for OT Han.

Feb 21st 2020 at 11:44:59 PM

OT Han was never the kind of guy who would sell out everyone around him for a buck, so I don't know about that. At his worst, OT Han was the kind of guy who would expect due payment even for good deeds, but otherwise was simply apathetic.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 21st 2020 at 11:48:47 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Feb 22nd 2020 at 12:26:00 AM

Han in ANH was at worst a Token Evil Teammate just because he is Not in This for Your Revolution, but he wasn't amoral in the sense that he will shoot anyone and everyone who gets in his way. Shooting Greedo was a last resort once he realized Greedo was prepared to kill him. He was more of a Knight In Sour Armor, cynical and selfish but was no friend of the Empire and open to friendship even if he's prepared to be betrayed.

RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:20:35 AM

I dunno, yeah those are good points, but man, Han deciding to piss off local crimelord who glows, and the guy who's crew Han sort of killed by screwing up, to help some rebels he barely knew and tried to kill him is just ridiculous to me. Without any form of reward.

Han deciding to help out the rebels like that, kinda cheapens his return to save Luke in a way.

But seriously, it's kinda silly that Luke and Ben JUST HAPPENED to hire the exact same smuggler who helped fund the rebellion they are trying to hook up with, and the exact wookie who fought with Yoda? What are the odds?

Kylotrope The Perfectionist from Honolulu Hawaii
The Perfectionist
Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:24:34 AM

Ben actually talked to Chewie first.

And with that in mind, you get the impression that Chewie was telling Obi Wan how to Con Han sense Han needed money.

Also Keep in mind this isn't Han Right before ANH, and all the stuff he did was before Qira turned against him.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 22nd 2020 at 12:26:06 AM

Evolution Requires Sacrifice
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:26:09 AM

[up] Huh, guess Ben was told of Chewbacca by Yoda? XD.

Okay, fair point. Still while i enjoyed Solo, i thought it was REALLY stretching things that Han gave the fuel to the rebels who were trying to kill him repeatedly.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:26:50 AM

slimcoder Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Black-Hearted Evil or Brave-Hearted Hero
Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:32:09 AM

Well it does suffer from prequelism, overtly connecting & defining everything.

I didn't even know Han had dice on the Falcon until the movie pointed that out.

Can you see all of me? Walk into my mystery. Do you remember me? Capture you or set you free I am all. I am all... I am all of me
Kylotrope The Perfectionist from Honolulu Hawaii
The Perfectionist
Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:32:12 AM

While I really liked Solo as well, I do wish it emphasized a sort of Protagonist Journey to Villain(Or, I guess "protagonist journey to selfish prick Anti-Hero" not an outright villain). With Han.

Evolution Requires Sacrifice
Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:32:51 AM

It comes right after Han just shot his mentor and took his biggest step into criminal darkness. So tonally him being altruistic right after feels off, even if he was never so cruel as to be totally selfish.

I think it could've amended it to, perhaps, Enfy's group sees Han shoot Beckett and Qira flee with Dryden's ship so they take it as signs that those two can't be trusted and thus steal all the coaxium before Han or Qira can stop Enfy's.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:34:07 AM

If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...
Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:54:24 AM

I was underwhelmed with just how valuable they made hyperdrive fuel out to be. Star Wars has always been about casual interstellar travel, it doesn't make sense for any location to be outright Mad Max.

That said, I was mostly okay with the idea Han has interacted with Rebel groups in the past. Imperial control was such that there was bound to be dissent almost anywhere you go. Hondo himself is not much different in occupation, and insurrection groups often rely on black market and other criminal enterprises for resources (same reason it was stupid in the ST for anyone to call out Poe having drug runner connections).

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
Feb 22nd 2020 at 9:32:17 AM

I mean, I guess for any group without much cash, gas money's always going to be expensive. The sheer ubiquity of interstellar travel in the Galaxy points to hyperdrive fuel being easy to obtain, though. A society like the Republic couldn't exist if getting to the very next star system was made impossible because the market for energy is that volatile.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Feb 22nd 2020 at 12:36:05 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Blueace Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 22nd 2020 at 9:35:08 AM

Did someone use the fuel money to throw a party again? Either that, or the Empire pulled a dick move and the rebels had to scramble.

Edited by Blueace on Feb 22nd 2020 at 2:42:08 PM

TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Feb 22nd 2020 at 11:34:02 AM

ANH Han is supposed to be a self-serving pragmatist who looks out for himself first and foremost, to a short-sighted degree.

  • Tells bald-faced lies about his ship to Obi-Wan that underscore just how little he actually knows about what he's doing.
  • He has problems with Jabba because he has a cowardly habit of dumping cargo at the first sign of Imperial law enforcement; that Han is singled out for this implies that Jabba's other smugglers manage the patrols just fine, and it's only Han that sucks.
  • He shoots one of Jabba's men when confronted about his shittiness, which can't be especially endearing to the crime family he's a member of.

Han Solo as introduced in ANH is a bottom-feeding sleazeball who doesn't actually have the nerve for the criminal life he's caught up in, but goes out of his way to try and look like he's got everything under control, and will take extreme measures that ultimately only make things worse the second things start to go south on him.

This is the start of Han's journey, culminating in the moment where he decides he cares enough about Luke to actually risk his own ass when the opportunity to cut and run is right in front of him. By the end of ANH, Han doesn't give two shits about the Rebel Alliance, but he has developed a bro kinship with Luke and comes back to bail the kid out.

This "bottom-feeding sleazeball screwing himself through his craven inadequacy as a criminal" aspect of Han is something that ultimately the Legacy EU, New EU, and even Lucas himself have all gone out of their way to erase.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 22nd 2020 at 12:36:32 PM

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.

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