Super Smash Bros Ultimate (SPOILER Thread)

> (get your mind out of the gutter)

no

While I still highly doubt geno is in, making the relevancy argument has no basing in a game like this where newcomers like dark samus and K. Rool who haven't been in a game in years. Relevancy doesn't matter as much as people think.

People use the relevancy argument in favour of Geno's inclusion, conveniently ignoring the biggest roadblocks that Geno has.

Square Enix has been shown to be stingy and honestly they probably don't see any use in lending that character. However, he is in as a spirit so at least they were willing a allow a jpg of him. There's also the fact that we don't know if spirits prevents characters from being fighters.

Another thing against Geno is that there is still a few characters from Mario that would rival him in popularity. There's Waluigi obviously and a case can be made for Toad. Then there's the fact that if you are going to get involved with Square, why would you go for a D-List side character when you can easily pick a character from their bigger franchises

I'd say that the relevancy argument might still apply to DLC for obvious reasons. I think K. Rool only ever had a chance as a base roster character.

While I don't think Geno is impossible, I really doubt the likelihood of his inclusion knowing both the fact that Nintendo is choosing a list of potential options, and that Square Enix seemed to barely let Cloud into the game (or if not were extremely stingy about it), so why would they have an obscure character in when they can instead go with [that game Erdrick is from that I've already forgotten the name of], [some other IP of Square's because I'm not familiar with Square Enix's stuff], or even Sora (if they get Disney on board since they're the ones who own him)

P.S. That being said, he IS in the game, meaning Sakurai DID get permission to use him in some fashion, so he does still have a legit chance

Edited by Numbuh1234 on Jan 15th 2019 at 8:54:36 AM

What are you talking about? It's the other way around, his detractors have been using that argument against him not his supporters.

In the sense that the Geno supporters compare the relevance argument to K. Rool's inclusion but his situation is widely different.

For once, K. Rool is first party, there aren't any third parties involved, even if many mistakenly believe that K. Rool is Rare's property. (He isn't and that also applies to Diddy). Second, the former's popularity in both the west and east helped a lot, some try to say that Geno is among the top but that's not true. His popularity is the same as Isaac, noticeable but not as big as you would think.

Why are we even having this conversation when the whole thing was started by someone calling people who want Geno "manbabies"?

Edited by RodimusMinor on Jan 15th 2019 at 12:52:24 PM

I believe that Cloud was Sakurai's choice and Square was surprised as they were thinking Lightning or Noctis. And honestly, how do you not go for Cloud?

K Rool and Dark Samus show that sometimes fan demand outweighs relevancy.

I think that Dark Samus was a case of surprising fan demand couple with the fact that she was an easy echo.

She, Daisy and Chrom happened with how similar they are to already existing character. An unlikely saving grace.

Honestly, Ridley and K Rool's addition should have ended the size and relevancy counterarguments, especially relevancy as this has zero impact on how a fighter plays. People can use relevancy in their own wishlists to narrow down who they think could be added, but it should not be used to counter someone else's choice and deconfirm them.

I want krokodilian antagonists in the next DCK game; Tiki heads and polar fauna weren't really up to par.

So having the Kremlings & King K. Rool back then?

Hey, it could happen. Especially now. Smash has a way of working magic on any franchise it represents.

That said, I did adore the Snowmads as well. If there's more of them or another similar animal tribe, I won't complain.

I can give a very solid reason why Noctis, at the very least, wasn't considered for addition over Cloud - back when Cloud was added to Smash, Final Fantasy XV wasn't out yet. And I don't think Square Enix wanted Noctis to debut in Smash Bros. I think I would have actually preferred Lightning in terms of possible fighting style, I can't fault picking Cloud over her, even with my known animus towards him and his home game.

Really, if we're talking about the "relevancy" arguments in general, Wii Fit Trainer should have been the end to those. We're talking about someone who, at the time of their announcement, was in just one exercise app that happened to run on a Nintendo system (though, to be fair, the second iteration of said app was out by the time Smash 4 came out). I mean, even Ice Climbers, who weren't even close to relevant when Melee came out, were at least in an actual game.

I will grant that "relevancy" has a bit more pull when we're talking third parties, because hints for the most part indicate that third parties generally lean towards their most relevant characters (I say "mostly" because I want to sidestep debates about Bayonetta, who I think is less about relevancy and more about Platinum Games in general). This is part of why, for example, Joker was taken over the protagonist of Persona 3 or Persona 4 (not to say that any were unpopular, but those two really magnified the franchise's profile, and one could make the argument that they should have been picked instead). That said, it wouldn't be completely surprising if one of the third parties threw everyone for a loop - like if, for example, Capcom asked to include Gene of God Hand, it wouldn't be the most outrageous even considering that there doesn't seem to be any indication that Capcom has any future plans for the IP.

Ultimately, we're all just guessing, though.

The problem with snowmads was the lack of theming. Penguins and polar bears (Frederick was great) and seals are fine. Suddenly owls?

Owls being part of a wintery-animal group makes sense to me IMO, though to be fair not to the same extent as polar bears.

I thought it was more on the arctic side, which is why the owl and monkey felt wayy weird

there was also beavers and orangutans in k.rool's ranks in dkc1, it doesn't have to have any "theming" all of bowser's mooks aren't koopas either. also, the relevance argument should've ended with ness in 64. he was a character from a cult classic snes game that bombed in the U.S. and the relevance argument for 3rd parties should have ended with pac-man and megaman in smash 4. pac-man used his retro design and megaman had no new games at the moment, if they were going for relevancy they would've picked mighty no.9 and ghostly adventures pac man, as well as have old snake in brawl and replace sonic with boom sonic.

Honestly people are confusing relevancy with iconography.

It really doesn't. Of all of Smash's franchises, there are only two that were actively better off because they were added to Smash: Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem. Kid Icarus needed to be actively adopted by Sakurai (and is now a dormant franchise) and Fire Emblem got localized for a few games before it was put on supreme life support until Awakening. Meanwhile, Mother 3 will still never get localized, F-Zero is still dead, Punch-Out hasn't gotten a new game since Little Mac was added, and Metroid only just got better through nothing that Smash did.

Sorry I just don't really like this perception that Smash saves things.

Edited by LordVatek on Jan 16th 2019 at 12:28:50 PM

From what I see, it's not that Smash "saves" things, but that what's represented by Smash tends to start showing up everywhere in that franchise itself, like for example Diddy's peanut gun and jetpack

Edited by Numbuh1234 on Jan 16th 2019 at 9:31:23 AM

Yeah, FE was still dying despite having Ike in Brawl. And hell, Star Fox was practically under fire.

If anything it just makes some franchises more visible. No one would even talk about F-Zero or Gyroids (not that they ever do the latter anyway) were it not for Smash

i sure can't wait for that ice climbers sequel