Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Well, he's old enough for this to be one of the early crusades, right? I guess the chaos could have provided some level of cover, and he could have taken steps to avoid meeting people who knew him as a child until he was old enough to pass it off as just the nature of getting older. Of course he would've needed to get quite lucky along with it — no one seeing that portrait before he could hide it, for instance.

It's a bit of an odd story beat. Feels that extra bit more convoluted on top of everything else that's going on with Camellia. Can't say how I think of it overall, though, because I've still never made it to the end of the game with Camellia in the party.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 21st 2021 at 1:48:24 PM

I get that, but also keep in mind, Horgus is a kid when he's doing all this. It feels oddly convoluted for someone like him. It's definitely a strange story beat. Also one that frankly kinda goes nowhere?

I mean, that because the AP version of Horgus didn't act with intent x'D What they did was panic because they went with child logic of "Oh no, if I don't say I'm Horgus, they will blame me for Horgus being dead" xD

Also another difference: Horgus Gwerm was from Egede. When Gwerm family died, "Horgus"'s relatives in Kenabres took him in.

Edited by SpookyMask on Oct 21st 2021 at 11:14:19 AM

For sure, I was agreeing with you. Sorry if it didn't come across, I tend to ramble.

Ahh. Was that made clear in the game? I don't remember that. But yeah, it's the kind of simple coincidence that does help. Pre-digital archives in the middle of a war? Sure, mistaken identity.

Kind of wonder if this all wouldn't sit better if the twist just didn't belong to Camellia herself. Camellia Horgusia Gwerm, or whatever. It seems like the kind of Talented Mr. Ripley machination a precocious young serial killer might come up with, and if Horgus's story really doesn't go anywhere later...

Edited by Unsung on Oct 21st 2021 at 2:37:28 AM

I mean, even Video game Horgus says he didn't act with intent, it sort of happened on its own. But my question is how that sustained itself for this long. Like, did his relatives taking him in never look at the family paintings they were holding for him?

It's also not helped that the revelation comes during Camellia's "I pretend I'm not a psycho" phase so like, she acts like she didn't know, but one implies she did?

There's a story in there about Camellia (And her mom) being sidelined by a dad for being commoners, and yet dad is himself a commoner but the game does nothing with it?

Edited by Ghilz on Oct 21st 2021 at 1:22:11 AM

^I think term is "Adaption Induced Plothole" xD

I dont think it makes much more sense in AP either mind you.

Maybe not-Horgus's adoptive family weren't that close with the real Horgus's family before the tragedy, and maybe real-Horgus's family just didn't have that many portraits. And so maybe not-Horgus made sure no one ever saw the real portraits, just made sure they were dumped in storage somewhere with a dropcloth over them.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 21st 2021 at 2:28:51 AM

I mean, Horgus hid Camellia's parentage for the exact same reason he hid his true identity. That's not really a contradiction.

Yeah, Presumably that's how it happens. It still feels weird, coz ya know, he was a child.

Edited by Ghilz on Oct 21st 2021 at 1:24:55 AM

^^^^I mean, if they last saw Horgus as really small child, it seems plausible for them if they don't recall it that well, if AP Horgus and Darian look sort of similar and any other differencs can be like "oh poor child, they are traumatized"

(since again, ap doesn't have plot reveal paintings xD)

Edited by SpookyMask on Oct 21st 2021 at 11:25:43 AM

Yeah, it's a bit of a big ask for the player WSOD-wise, especially for something that happens to a bit character entirely offscreen. Depends on the kid, I suppose. Horgus isn't a sociopath like Camellia, but he could've been precocious in his own way.

I guess if you're rich with servants you can just ask them to do whatever and nobody thinks twice about it, too.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 21st 2021 at 2:36:06 AM

It's still is far fetched. Like, A) So no other servant of the uber rich Gwerm survived but him so no one could say who he is. And he never came across anyone who met the Gwerms, visited them, or was friends with them. Presumably none of the Gwerm's friends, business acquaintances, off duty servants, or the likes ever attended the funerals and saw the grieving kid?

B) At no point did Horgus' different upbringing, lack of family resemblance, or complete lack of knowledge about his own family or lineage (Something nobles are usually big into) ever raise questions.

Like, it's not impossible, but like says It's so far fetched to accept. And for no payoff.

Edited by Ghilz on Oct 21st 2021 at 1:31:49 AM

To be fair, for certain kinds of servants, knowing everything about the family, more than some actual members of the family, does seem possible. Not-Horgus was something of a companion to the actual Horgus, so there's some tangential training in how to be a noble there. And if the war really was that bad — maybe there really wasn't anyone who knew the real Horgus well enough to spot the impostor. Someone who knew his parents, sure, but would they really be paying attention to some little kid? Maybe being the real Horgus's constant companion could even help his case, making people second-guess themselves, realizing that the boy they thought was the servant was actually the heir?

...But this is all playing devil's advocate. There's a way this plot could work, but not like this, where it asks the player do all this mental legwork to get there. Which might be one thing if this were a major NPC, but Horgus, and really Camellia herself, gets so little development unless (I assume) you play along with her murder hobby. In which case it turns out she wants to murder him, I gather? I'm only as far as Alushinyrra with her still alive.

Honestly, it would probably also work better if it were a self-contained one-off sidequest, where the mystery and reveal were all completed in one quick go. Spreading it out across multiple acts makes it unclear how important Horgus is going to be, how sympathetic the game wants him to be. It just feels kind of half-baked. Which I think Spooky has sort of admitted? This was not a twist in the AP, sounds like?

Edited by Unsung on Oct 21st 2021 at 3:15:49 AM

I think the game would benefit from a follow up where keeping Horgus' secret or not is a choice with consequence. Like, what if theres those other Gwerms who suspect something's off. Which rich asshole who promises to support the crusade do you support?

Like how much do you believe Horgus' story? Man's clearly willing to keep secrets (Doubly so when you know the truth of Camellia)

If they really leaned into the soap opera of it all, with a whole extended side cast and the associated intrigue, that could've been fun. I'm not even talking about anything that extensive or high-effort. Just short, well-drawn vignettes.

Ha. So yeah, I found this out on the Characters page a while back, but here he is, that extra frontliner with a little bit of personality I've been harping on about. In my party. On the playthrough where I don't actually need him. Ha. Two-handed weapon specialty, heavy armour, and everything.

Edited by Unsung on Oct 21st 2021 at 11:25:49 AM

It's now again possible to exit the Molten Scar!

This has the same energy of "hooray, the seatbelt works again"!

Why was this a problem in the first place?

Edited by fredhot16 on Dec 8th 2021 at 2:20:26 AM

Huge codebase, janky to begin with, fixing one thing breaks another thing in a place you weren't necessarily looking.

Edited by Unsung on Dec 8th 2021 at 3:39:39 AM

New free DLC for the lunar new year, a tiny sovereign dragon pet.

DLC 1 announced: Inevitable Excess, on Feb 16th

Image for the DLC seems to be one of the aforementioned Inevitable. Guessing lot of materials there for Aeon mythic path players.

What are those law-aligned mechanical beings which hang around Drezen on an Aeon run? Something different from an Inevitable, I take it?

Inevitable Excess seems to be about primordial inevitable Valmallos the Answering Rite and protean lord Ssila'meshnik the Colorless Lord.

^Those ARE inevitables.

Edited by SpookyMask on Jan 29th 2022 at 7:36:04 PM

Ah, so we're not just meeting an Inevitable, we're meeting the Inevitable. Sounds neat; I think I'll wait until all the DLC are out before redownloading the game and starting another run, though.

Well, "a" technically speaking. Primordial Inevitable and Protean Lord are demigod categories such as Demon Lords, Empyreal Lords, daemonic harbingers or archfiends/dukes of hell are

Yay for week until dlc I guess :p

Anyway fairly confused by how trope page refers Hulrun as taldan since isn't he still garund in this game? or did I miss line that descripes him otherwise?