Avengers Endgame spoiler thread

Huh, the tombstones made me realize that by that point in the movie there where only men left. And 2014!Nebula.

Note: What a pagetopper.

Edited by eligram on Jun 14th 2019 at 11:51:43 AM

Yet another reason Natasha shouldn't have been killed.

I actually noticed that during the movie when they were having the "All of the Avengers stand around and mourn Nat" scene. IIRC, just before using the Infinity Gauntlet to fire off the Snapback?

I was watching that and going, "Wow, not a single person mourning for Nat is a woman." Really shone a spotlight at how many MCU films fail the Bechdel Test, honestly. I don't think Nat's ever had a conversation with another woman (not about a man) in the MCU's entire 20+ filmography.

In fact, I think the only time she's ever had a conversation with another woman at all is Iron Man 2, when she and Pepper discuss Tony's racecar antics.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 14th 2019 at 11:44:26 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Only time that comes to mind is Nat telling off Proxima Midnight when coming to Wanda’s aid.

I don’t remember her ever speaking to Sharon, but she said a bit to Maria Hill in The Winter Soldier.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 14th 2019 at 10:50:23 AM

There's also the time in Civil War were she reminds Wanda of her Glass Cannon nature while discussing the plan to take down the enemy.

Gamora and Nebula have the most conversations that pass the Bechdel Test, though I’m not sure if those outnumber the ones they have about Ronan, Thanos, and Quill.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 14th 2019 at 10:54:28 AM

As long as they have even one, it counts.

That's the nature of the Bechdel Test. It's often misinterpreted as some great standard for what is and is not a feminist film, but that's not it at all. The point of the Test isn't to award some Feminist Badge of Honor to films that pass it. It's that passing the test is so incredibly easy as to shine a spotlight of shame on the overwhelming quantity of films that can't.

I wouldn't consider James Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy films to be shimmering examples of feminist filmmaking. Not by a long shot. But at least Gamora and Nebula have actual conversations that are about Gamora and Nebula.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jun 14th 2019 at 12:05:14 PM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Ah yes, those Guardians films directed by Peter Gunn, private eye. I just love space noir.

EDIT: You fixed it, dammit. Now my post makes no sense!

Edited by alliterator on Jun 14th 2019 at 11:05:36 AM

I think Nat had a brief chat with Clint's wife and daughter in Age of Ultron. Nothing big, just a general "good to see you again" thing, and establishing she's "Aunt Natasha".

I have so much trouble with his name. I honestly don't know why.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Yeah, Age of Ultron passes the Bechdel Test. Ironically, I don't think the first Avengers does — which was a real concern for Whedon, I believe. He's stated that he kept on trying to insert the Wasp into the film, but realized it just didn't work. And then he tried to insert Carol Danvers into Age of Ultron, but that didn't work either.

From what I've heard, Edgar Wright wouldn't let Whedon use the Wasp.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

I wouldn't mind Carol entering the franchise sooner, but at the same time I think it's for the best that her intro movie is one that's uh, significantly better than Age of Ultron, so I guess that checks out for me.

Self-serious autistic metalhead who goes by any pronouns. (avvie template source)

From what I recall, Carol wasn’t going to do anything in Age of Ultron besides show up at the end. When that was nixed, they reused the shot for Wanda and that’s how she got the power to fly.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 14th 2019 at 11:38:30 AM

I'm glad Hishie did not use the Ant-Man and Thanos joke, I'm tired of that joke.

---

Many complain about Natasha's death, but if we compare characters that were left dead.

Heimdall, Loki, Vision, Natasha, Gamora and Iron Man

4 male vs 2 female.

And it is noteworthy that Natasha at least had the privilege that her death was a heroic sacrifice, Loki was put in a fridge.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jun 15th 2019 at 2:34:31 AM

We get backup Loki and Gamora though

They’re out of date because someone forgot to back up the data more often

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Even assuming Loki revived. The score would remain 3-1.

Also I do not think that getting a double in another timeline, califies how to "revive".

—-

Ps: I hope that "reviving" heroes using their doubles from other timelines is exclusive of Gamora (and possibly Loki) and is not something that happens again or frequently.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jun 15th 2019 at 2:53:55 AM

It occurs to me that they could have alt-timeline Loki show up without violating the "only removing Infinity Stones splits the timeline" rule.

Loki escaped using the Tesseract, a.k.a. the Space Stone. If any cosmic artifact's going to let you travel to other universes, it's gonna be that one. And given he got Thanos's army killed and lost the Mind Stone Scepter, even presenting the Tesseract to Thanos as promised won't necessarily keep the Mad Titan from exacting some retribution. The smartest play for Loki is to use the Tesseract to go somewhere beyond Thanos's reach, and given what a galaxy-wide terror Thanos is, escaping to another universe might be his best bet.

At risk of restarting a fire, removing Infinity Stones is not the only way to split a timeline

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They

The Reality Stone is likelier

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

This would work if the numbers of male and female members are equal. Or if the number of characters dying is something people gave a shit about rather than the context of the death.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Jun 15th 2019 at 7:48:32 PM

Not only that but the two female deaths were for the same "must sacrifice someone" plot point.

So if Widow dying is Hawkeye "sacrificing what you love most", does that mean Clint loves Natasha more than his own family? Or was she just the runner up, meaning if Gamora had killed herself Thanos could've just chucked off what he loves second-best?

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 15th 2019 at 5:25:13 AM

Well, seems like Thanos had other options, but found it too complicated

Well the fact Natasha and Clint had to fight each other for the sacrifice, it kind of pokes holes in the entire concept. Clint didn't sacrifice Natasha, she went of her own accord. Traumatic, sure, but Clint didn't really earn the stone for himself.