Doki Doki Literature Club

I think that her killing herself no matter what is more Monika's doing than anything on Sayori's part. The same thing applies with Yuri and her becoming a Yandere.

Yeah I know that. What I meant is why write it into the game during development like this?

Gross, hindsight questioning.

Ok let me try to explain again.

You have a depressed character, who confides in another about depression... and you write your game specifically so that no matter what the player does the character cannot be helped. Which sends the message "if someone is depressed, no matter what you do, what you're doing is wrong, including doing nothing, and they cannot e helped by any means." At least to me it does.

Edited by akanesarumara on Jun 29th 2019 at 7:18:57 PM

But isn't Monika the reason Sayori's depression gets that bad? I'd imagine the unaltered VN route would have involved helping Sayori out properly.

... For the third time, it was the developers writing it so that Monika makes help impossible. The developers are sending this message.

Doesn't the implication then follow that, without Monika, help is possible?

I'm sincerely not following the logic here, if I'm understanding correctly that you're saying the developers are sending a message that depression is impossible to help no matter what you do.

That message seems negated by the fact that what makes the help impossible is an unforeseen outside factor that no one in story was aware of.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 29th 2019 at 12:49:09 PM

It would e negated if Monika's involvement were known before the suicide, I think.

I disagree.

Foreknowledge of Monika doesn't change the circumstances of what made Sayori do what she did for the player, and if characters In-Universe knew, the plot would have become a completely different story since Monika's self awareness is the big twist.

You're saying, again if I'm understanding right, that the developers are sending a message that depression is impossible to do anything about, but it's the actions of the villain that renders any help impossible, not anything to do with Sayori's condition itself. So the claim doesn't track.

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 29th 2019 at 12:58:45 PM

Yeah, as a person actively struggling with depression, I'm not seeing a problem here. Sayori's suicide was due to factors beyond anyone's control and the Golden Ending shows that Sayori can overcome her problems so long as someone isn't fucking around with her code.

Also, in regards to an earlier conversation, MC-kun is really just a stand-in for the player in far more literal sense than normal. "Time travel" via saving and reloading is needed to achieve the Golden Ending and Monika eventually starts addressing the player directly. MC-kun having any real personality beyond what the player chooses for him would only unnecessarily complicate matters as you get into Act 3 since too many things make no sense if he's supposed to be his own person (him staying in the classroom with Yuri's dead body for, what, over 48 hours springs to mind).

While it's certainly possible for a story to have a protag with an actual personality and have the player be a character in the story (One Shot does this very well), the kind of story DDLC was trying to tell doesn't let that be possible.

Yes, it would be a completely different story, though the depression itself predated Monika's influence and got no better even before she intervened, right? It might not have been what they were going for, but I still find it a bit weird that, well, none of the girls' problems are something you are allowed to really help with. Any help and support seems to be from the mere existence of the club, though I admit this may e because the game is on the short side so there may have been not enough time to flesh that out.

For Natsuki, the club may be an escape and a safe spot, but it was that before you appeared, too.

For Yuri, there's the self-harm we only expressly find out about after Monika pushes her buttons, probably because in normal cases club and reading may anchor her.

And I already mentioned Sayori's unfortunate demise, for whom club actively seems to make things worse, even without you (she keeps telling herself she has no reason to be unhappy if others are happy but that line of thinking is well not really of much help because it denies her own emotions).

I'd imagine that, were this a normal visual novel, each girl's plotline would develop to help them with their respective issues in some form or another. I'm not well versed on the genre but that is how they generally work, I believe.

Yeah they often do, such as Katawa Shoujo, which also discusses both white knighting and being able to ask for help very thoroughly.

As for the 48 hours with Yuri's body that was cos the classroom was so glitched no ways out worked right?

Edited by akanesarumara on Jun 30th 2019 at 9:21:25 PM

No, it's because the script was broken...therefore no transition the next scene.

Ah I see. Either way that would be the same no matter what the main character's personality was like.

What was there was already gone by the time that happened.

It's simple game stuff, like a broken hack.

Yuri stretched out the scene past where it was suppose to fade out, so the "game" didn't know what to do.

It's fun stuff.

On the previous page someone asked about mods not about saving the girls. This is actually a good question. I felt there was potential to do some interesting stuff with this game, but the modders just want to mostly do fix-it-fics. Which can be okay, but how about something else?

I would like to see mods that retain the horror element, but while also allowing for things to go a different roue. Maybe a longer, more expanded story. Like having something with Lovecraft elements. Or maybe something like the movie Scream.

Of course, if you wanted to get really out there maybe try reinterpreting in as a magical girl story (dark or not is optional). Of course, with the male main character that would be a little different. I believe there was an anime like that called Chaos Head.

Anyway, these are just ideas. I'm sure there are other things that could be done. Are there any mods like this, or at least different from a typical fix it route?

I have a theory that monika in the let said "original game"(that mean before she got self awaraness) is kinda get helper, maybe she was the save point or give clue to woo one of the girls in case the player didnt know what to do, is clear the book library was the end point of the game(I mean you kinda start dating by that point) so yeah, sayori depresion is kinda code into her being.

I think it would've been interesting if MC initially did have awareness of what was going on in Act 2 and became increasingly horrified, only for Monika to eventually override his "consciousness" until he becomes the empty husk he is by Yuri and Monika's big fight.

I mean, that's pretty much all but stated outright.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jun 30th 2019 at 9:43:58 AM

That was supposed to be Monika's role. She had a preestablished, non-best friend relationship with MC-kun and was stated to pretty much be the school idol. She's not romanceable but she'll give you tips on how to romance the other girls. This is why the game railroads you from spending any time with her. The fact that she was stuck in that role is what motivated her to start fucking around with the code to try and make herself romanceable. In fact, it'd be interesting to see how things would have played out if she had been romanceable.

Another thing that makes Sayori's suicide "okay" (as far as such a thing can be okay) is that it's revealed pretty quickly that someone's fucking around with the code. Not only do you have the small detail that Sayori's fingers are bloody, but you also have the game returning an error and telling you to view traceback.txt. Doing so will reveal a message from someone (Monika) indicating that they're fucking around with the code.

Like I said the problem with the MC is that the he said stuff like being friend with sayori and showing something of a personality, grating personality but persoanity, I will said that would have being better if the MC have being overide at the end.

Which is funny because the MC can be said as much of a slave as monika is, forcing to romance a girl even if he dosent want to.

So, no good mods then? Okay. Guess I'll go back to not thinking about this game then.

I haven't thought about it in any capacity bigger than "man, this game really dropped off the map" until someone randomly bumped the thread to post a one-word agreement.

I thought this game had a lot of potential for interesting/fun stuff with mods. But it seems like most people are only interested in turning it into a regular visual novel, or discussing the characters' emotions, which is kind of dull. For me, the big appeal of this game was always the horror/meta aspects. I'm not saying that exploring the characters thoughts and feelings can't be interesting up to a point, but there needs to be more than just that. At least for me.

The creator of this game did a good job of turning visual novel stuff on its head, and doing some out there and unexpected stuff. But most of the fans seem more interested in stripping away the stuff that makes the game unique and memorable and just treating it more like a regular visual novel. Ah well. What are you gonna do?

There is at least one mod of it that plays up the horror aspects of it... buuuut it's so tryhard it makes Five Nights at Freddy's look like Get Out.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jun 30th 2019 at 7:03:15 AM