Grand Theft Auto VI

And it just seems so... nonsensical? If not *those* things, then what are we supposed to care about? If we can't care about anything, doesn't that seem... hollow and defeatist if not simply impossible and just plain stupid?

The death of humanity is apathy anyway. I want to make fun of the idiot who think we should care about nothing. Lambaste that mentality into an open grave. I'd rather ANYONE care about *something* instead of just plain old nothing. Be passionate. Be happy. Enjoy the little things.

Surely we can find comedy and satire that doesn't feel entirely heartless and empty? And otherwise irredeemable?

...I just turn on cheat codes and fight cops man...

Trevor Phillips was a clever metaphor for the average GTA player, fulfilling our basest desire for havoc and mischief.

Edited by Soble on Apr 7th 2020 at 8:17:26 AM

Which is exactly why I hate Trevor Phillips and like the players who ADORE him even less. I think it says something when a game goes 'This is you, jackass!' and the audience loves them anyway.

The problem with these games is similar to South Park's, in that they tend to attack all sides and end up having no real opinion of their own.

It is nihilist satire in that it mocks everything without believing in anything.

The way V treats feminism is a prime example. Yes, there are militant feminists who seem more interested in man bashing than empowerment, and are bigots in their own fashion, and those certainly deserve mockery. But the game never tells us what sort of feminism is worthwhile and worthy of praise. All it does is to make every woman a strawman for the wrong kind of feminism, and in doing so gives the impression of dismissing all feminism.

It's not like anybody should look to GTA for moral guidance. Satirical comedy, done right, is a circus; it makes fun of stuff, without necessarily saying something else should be done instead, just making fun for it's own sake. That some dudebros look at Trevor and think that's some kind of role model is precisely what Trevor is the mockery of, whether or not they realise it. It's fun without a necessary deeper meaning, just for the sake of fun itself. I wouldn't even call it nihilistic: it's a farce, one that the player can just as easily ignore and play just for the sake of enjoying playing, which I'd say is exactly what most players do. Hell, the only time GTA tried having a more serious story with a message was in IV, and people lambasted it for that exact reason.

Now, sure, it's not always done right; I agree, for example, with what you said about their portrayal of feminism on V. But at most times, GTA is just out to point at something and make fun of it, before giving us some more action to enjoy. It's not out to make any big statements. It's part of why making a GTA game now would be difficult: people are not in a state of mind right now to welcome "pointing at things and making fun of them for fun's sake". Ironically, the only time where making fun of things for being too serious works properly is when things aren't too serious, and right now, they are.

Edited by TheLovecraftian on Apr 8th 2020 at 8:11:41 AM

Bad news: looks like the next GTA is still a few years away, probably scheduled for 2023-24 based on future marketing spending.

How long can they drag out V’s lifespan?

Then again, I probably won’t immediately buy GTA VI, which I also did with V.

They are still going strong with new content for Online, so they can certainly drag it out a few more years.

It's also possible they might let V die down for a bit and then boost it back up for VI. People are understandably going to be kinda upset if V puts out some cool updates and the VI gets released a few months later. All that content now feels 'obsolete' in a lot of ways. Its hard to keep a hype train constantly going.

They're probably going to wait until they're comfortable with the PSV and XSX as well as the engine they invariably make to run on them.

That too. Especially if they intend VI to have the online staying power that V did.

They are re-releasing GTA V for the PS 5.

In other words, kiss that sequel goodbye for the next few years.

GTA 6 Rumors: Project Americas, Female Protagonist, And Release Date Speculation: With no official information on when GTA 6 is coming out, where it will take place, and what it's about, the rumor mill has gone off the rails.

Well, it's time for the rumour mill, I guess.

• The game will have a female protagonist, alongside a male one.
  • Well, this is certainly a trend in newer games, but comments like "we haven't found the right game for a female protagonist yet" don't give me much hope. Clearly the concept of a female criminal was still quite beyond Rockstar's conception back in 2013. That the rumour mill can't even conceive of a standalone female protagonist is even more telling.
• The game will be set in Miami or Vice City.
  • A very old rumour, and a very predictable one, based on the apparent tendency of the last couple games to redo the III/Liberty City/Vice City run of games, which in turn were a do-over of settings in the first GTA game. Man, that really makes it sound like this series can only do three cities, with only one daring excursion into London. With that in mind, I wholeheartedly hope it won't be Vice City.
• It will be set in both the US and South America.
  • I highly doubt it. The series has settled very solidly as an American parody series for decades now. I don't see them suddenly branching out now.
• It will be set in Liberty City and Vice City.
  • A more ambitious version of the "recycle the old setting" argument, and arguably an even less desirable one. It also plays into dreams of having one huge map with all fictional cities of all GTA games ever made, which probably sounds more fun than it would be. The map is already quite huge and empty enough as it is in V. Imagine that multiplied by five huge cities, with huge swathes of countryside and wilderness between them. And you'd have to constantly travel between them to justify having all five present. I'm already getting sick of it thinking about it. Maps need to get denser, not bigger.
• It will be set in multiple eras.
  • A temporal variation on "recycle what we already did before", combining the Vice City era with the modern one. I highly doubt this would happen in any substantial way, as it would effectively double production costs on the setting. They are almost certainly not going to do one era for single player and another for online either, for the same reasons that it would cost too much.
• The release will be late 2021 or 2022.
  • Can you say moving the goalposts? This is basically the same rumour over the years that the next game is going to come out next year, no really! Indications seem to be that it was in early development in 2020, and then Covid delayed everything, which includes this game, no doubt, so don't get your hopes up, this is going to take a long time still (and this is even officially confirmed to be the case, at that). Looks like porting V to the PS 5 wasn't such an outlandish move after all.
• It will be a PS 5 launch exclusive.
  • I highly, highly doubt it. Sounds like a cloaked console wars argument, really.
• GTA Online has a teaser for 6.
  • Fans are going a little nuts, to be honest, seeing oracular signs in dirt roads shaped vaguely like VI, and whatnot. The question is not really if Rockstar will release a new game, but when, anyway. And speculating that the next game will be called VI, after having IV and V, is not exactly brilliant sleuthing.
• A picture of a robot embracing the R* logo is "proof" that the next game will be in Vice City.
  • More grasping at straws from fans desperate for news.

So all in all, we only know that we really don't know the first thing about the new game.

I can't conceive of a female protagonist in this franchise without entire articles being written on how they did it wrong or right. There's too much cultural pressure on media right now to do these things absolutely 100 percent perfectly for a game as nonsensical and whimsical as GTA to do it.

I can see it now

• "GTA (finally) includes a female criminal scumbag! It's about time we got to be a female avatar of death-worshipping garbage! This is good!"
• "GTA introduces an SJW genderless flat-chested abomination! How dare they! We should attack the Rockstar employees' Twitter accounts and make them make her breasts larger!"

Assassins Creed and Cyberpunk seem to have female protagonists just fine. The latter more than the former, admittedly. But Cyberpunk was in development for years and AC pretty much retooled itself six or seven games in. And they were more inclusive from the get-go and weren't founded on the concept of letting the player break the law and fight armies of cops.

Speaking of, my god, a game released in 2021 that lets you shoot and blow up cops at your leisure. That's not gonna go over well. Then again let's call that payback for Resident Evil 5 where you murder droves of infected murderous black people to literally survive.

I think they just should focus on Red Dead Redemption 3 at this point. GTA online seems to be doing gangbusters.

I could buy this depending on when the release date is.

Edited by FOFD on Apr 13th 2021 at 10:32:58 AM

At this point, we could make an argument for starting a GTA Online thread. It seems there are plans for a standalone version for the PS 5.

I never actually got to play GTA Online due to poor internet connection. I always wanted to try Red Dead Online due to the Mexican Stand-off mechanic.

a bit: Saint's Row had a female Boss from at least Saint's Row 2. Rockstar would be doing nothing new if they gave us a psychotic, vicious unhinged harpy from hell in lycra and leather as I spent hundreds of happy hours playing as one up until the end of the last DLC in Saint's Row IV. I am now going to commit heresy here and say that I enjoyed the last three Saint's Row games more than I did the GTA ones since San Andreas.

I'm agreeing with you on II and probably III, but I thought it kind of lost its touch in IV.

I enjoyed IV but using the Matrix setting as an excuse to re-use the Steelport map and make everything look glitchy and broken is where I'd say they dropped the ball.

Saints Row is so balls-off-the-walls with their character creation, I agree it gives a fine example of a female criminal player character, but at the same time it's designed in such an absurd universe I don't think it'd translate well to GTA. Of course, they could do it anyway and throw conventional gender roles completely out the window.

I'm curious how they'd go about it. We've never had a video game where you could be a modern-day female lunatic with guns who wasn't A) trying to save the world B) a magical witch C) Catwoman or D) a Silent Protagonist avatar.

It feels like all previous protagonists were based off some manner of ethnic stereotype or criminal pastiche: the silent Italian hitman for the mob, a Tony Montana-knock off, a black street gang leader, a Russian trafficker, and then a toss-up between a black street thug, a balding psychopath, and a bored white guy looking for his next big score.

What could you make a female GTA protagonist like, or what would they most likely go with: career criminal, hoodrat, Femme Fatale?

Edited by FOFD on Apr 13th 2021 at 9:24:18 AM

Not really? Whenever the developers of Assassin's Creed proposed having a female protagonist they were shot down with the excuse of "female protagonists don't sell". For example, Aya was originally meant to be the player character for the majority of Origins but studio execs pushed for Bayek to remain the lead.

Female protags only really crop up when they share the spotlight with a male protag. Another example, Kassandra was originally the sole protag of Odyssey, until they were forced to add a male option. Even then you have stuff like how Evie was meant to have an equal amount of story time as Jacob, but ended up having a fair deal less due to executive meddling.

Also, the fact that Ubisoft turned out to be a den of abuse is kind of a mark against them being a company that represents equality.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-07-21-assassins-creed-odyssey-has-two-leads-because-ubisoft-leads-believed-women-dont-sell

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/new-report-claims-assassins-creed-developers-were-pressured-into-minimising-female-protagonists/

Me personally? I'd copy the Boss from Saint's Row IV, maybe file a few of the serial numbers off as they say so it isn't too blatant a rip-off. It's my favourite characterization of her, despite the game's many and manifold problems (which admittedly didn't stop me from completing every story mission). She's tough, resourceful, utterly ruthless yet still extremely charming.

To the point that I still haven't played a game in the Saint's Row franchise since 2 as a guy...

Female! V from Cyberpunk 2077 kinda meets most of the criteria for being a GTA protagonist, save for the extreme sociopathy and inclination towards purely illegal activities. So I don't think it'd be terribly difficult to add in a female GTA protagonist.

Rather, the real question is whether the next game will have a sole protagonist, a trio like in GTAIV, or decide upon a create-your-own character approach.

I just watched Fast Five. Why can't we have a GTA game like this movie? Or this series, really? Seems like a perfect match-up.

Rockstar Games Cleaned Up Its Frat-Boy Culture — and Grand Theft Auto, Too: With a new tone at the company and a change in creative direction, GTA VI will probably feel very different from its predecessor

• The game will be set in modern day Vice City
• One of the protagonists is a Latina woman, and is part of a Bonny and Clyde-esque duo
• It was going to have large parts of North and South America as its map, but that has been scrapped and now it's just Vice City
• Vice City will change and evolve throughout the game
• The release date is at least 2 years away
• The general work culture at Rockstar has become less masculine and toxic
• A cops and robbers mechanic has been scrapped due to police violence controversies
• No more punching down humour (as in, mocking minorities and vulnerable groups)

The protagonists are Catalina and Claude. Calling it now.

Edited by Redmess on Jul 28th 2022 at 11:13:42 AM

Well the change of work culture is a good thing.

Changing the franchise's humor and immediately implementing a Latina protagonist seems tone-deaf, so even if I wanted to see how they'd handle a female protagonist my kneejerk reaction is to feel uncomfortable.

Curious how or if they'll keep prostitutes in the game. If they can keep the same general chaos and vulgarity without trying to sanitize the game then I'm all for it. I don't play Grand Theft Auto because I'm an artsy human being looking for revolutionary, symbolic storytelling.

God of War is a franchise that was pretty crude/violent for its early entries until the third main entry where they decided to remove the sex minigames, and then in the new series they opted for "mature" storytelling which made Kratos a far more likable protagonist for most people, and the setting more academically acceptable. Thing is I don't really need to see that in Grand Theft Auto and most of my fondness for the franchise hasn't been for its mature and nuanced outlook.

I really don't give a shit about police violence reflected in video games and I'm almost angry that this even comes up, but I A) can understand why that'd be bad for business, and B) kind of gave up on the series when V became a cash cow.

As for the humor... not touching that one. See paragraphs 3 and 4 .

Also if they get rid of using your cellphone to hack reality then this just isn't GTA anymore.

Edited by FOFD on Jul 28th 2022 at 6:02:20 AM