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Anthem (Bioware's new property)

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M84 This is bad comedy. from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
This is bad comedy.
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:19:59 PM

At some point even they have to realize that a reputation of turning gold into shit isn't really one you want to have.

Disgusted, but not surprised
IniuriaTalis Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:22:51 PM

They can't rely on FIFA forever. And even if they can, that means that they should probably stop spending money on non-FIFA things.

Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:24:01 PM

Yeah, but do you really think they like that reputation?

Do you think they care?

Coz I've worked at EA, lemme tell you, they don't.

So long as they remain profitable, they do not give a shit what people think of them killing studios. And their earnings have been up and up every quarters.

When EA was chosen by poll worse company in America their reaction was most a "Really guys?" note , it didn't prompt a deep introspection.

It's adorable you think that but EA doesn't give a flying fuck when they kill a studio. They certainly don't go "But guys what about people's feels on the internet?"

Edited by Ghilz on Feb 10th 2020 at 9:26:47 AM

IniuriaTalis Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:27:20 PM

The thing is, they spent money for Bioware. There is no economic model in the world where spending a lot of money just to make a bunch of money-losing projects is a good thing. They killed Mass Effect and made a hash of the first new property. That's not good business. Art is not the same as business, but being known as the shit-art-pushers is bad business too.

[up]It's adorable that you think EA keeps spending millions of dollars on new studios because they just love taking losses. wink

Edited by IniuriaTalis on Feb 10th 2020 at 9:28:18 AM

theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:29:04 PM

Well what happened to Anthem was mostly Bioware's fault anyway. The only thing EA had to do with it was forcing them to use Frostbite despite its technical issues. If anything they had a mostly positive influence because they finally said "Okay, you've been working on this for years, get off your asses and make something" and forced Bioware to start work on the game.

Bioware's complacency is the main reason why this game didn't turn out well.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
M84 This is bad comedy. from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
This is bad comedy.
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:29:37 PM

And as I've posted before, it's debatable whether EA really forced Bioware to use Frostbite in the first place.

As that one Kotaku article pointed out, Bioware's main issue is that their leadership in the last several years hasn't been very good.

Edited by M84 on Feb 10th 2020 at 10:30:23 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:29:59 PM

The thing is, they spent money for Bioware. There is no economic model in the world where spending a lot of money just to make a bunch of money-losing projects is a good thing.

They spent money on Pandemic in the same transaction where they bought Bioware. Where's Pandemic today?

Where's Visceral studios.

Where's Westwood studios?

Where's Origin Game Studios?

Also, you think they never made their money back? Did you never hear of Mass Effect 2? (released right after the buyout). Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age Inquisition, The Old Republic.

Buying a studio and making make shittier and shittier games till all the value is extracted is precisely EA's business model.

[up]It's adorable that you think EA keeps spending millions of dollars on new studios because they just love taking losses. wink

You keep imagining they never made their money back.

Edited by Ghilz on Feb 10th 2020 at 9:30:54 AM

IniuriaTalis Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:31:51 PM

Yeah, clearly cutting off future revenue is exactly what they want. They have absolutely no recognition of the value of brand name. And I'm sure that you've definitely spoken to people with actual power over multi-million dollar deals to support this, right?

Feb 10th 2020 at 6:33:18 PM

Honestly, despite myself, I still believe they can make a good Dragon Age game. They already have a basic template in Inquisition. Anthem, on the other hand, will always just be another boring looter shooter.

Edited by Ludlow on Feb 10th 2020 at 6:33:56 AM

deludedmusings Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:35:42 PM

As I've said before, many of the people responsible for what people loved about the Dragon Age games are still there. So I don't doubt the creative talent is still capable.

It's the structure and organization that worries me.

Holding a grudge is allowing someone to live inside your head rent free.
Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:37:43 PM

Again, this literally a thing EA has done, several dozen times.

Dunno where the delusion that Bioware is special in EA's eyes comes from. This a pattern EA has gone through, again and again.

EA acts like a venture capitalist firm. Future profits are not as important as immediate profits. Because it's always about the next quarterly report, coz that's the one that affects if the people in power keep their job. No one cares what the studio can be worth in 10 years. That's not how EA rolls. Why do you think EA takes a studio known for carefully crafted single player experiences and goes "Guy make a looter shooter we can monetize the shit out of". It's sure as fuck not out of a care about "the value of Bioware's brand"

In the 90s Origin was one of the greatest PC gaming studio. Didn't stop EA from making Ultima 8, Ultima 9, and burn the studio into the ground. Today its name only exists as EA's storefront.

[up] Hopefully Bioware does something about their toxic work culture.

Edited by Ghilz on Feb 10th 2020 at 9:38:22 AM

M84 This is bad comedy. from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
This is bad comedy.
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:39:41 PM

"Anthem with dragons" doesn't exactly fill me with confidence though.

Disgusted, but not surprised
IniuriaTalis Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:39:55 PM

[up][up]And, again, there is no reason for them to keep buying, making, or using new brands if that's the case.

You're acting like they actively want to kill all their studios, which is just nonsensical.

Edited by IniuriaTalis on Feb 10th 2020 at 9:40:20 AM

M84 This is bad comedy. from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
This is bad comedy.
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:47:23 PM

And in Bioware's case at least, their leadership claims that they wanted to pivot to multiplayer stuff on their own (hence the multiplayer content in Mass Effect 3). Whether that's actually true or it's just them not wanting to outright say "EA has us by our ballsacks"...

Disgusted, but not surprised
theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:48:28 PM

[up][up]They certainly like to make it easier to close their studios. Remember Dead Space 3?

"Your game has to make such and such numbers in order for us to allow you to keep making it, allow us to force you to put in a bunch of stuff that will undoubtedly impact its sales because we didn't like the game and want you to make shooters."

Edited by theLibrarian on Feb 10th 2020 at 8:49:44 AM

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Ghilz Fight It Out! from The Moon, Or Canada Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Fight It Out!
Feb 10th 2020 at 6:53:01 PM

You're acting like they actively want to kill all their studios, which is just nonsensical.

No, I'm acting like EA's business model is

  1. "Buy promising studio with good rep"
  2. "Flood market with as many products containing the promising studio's name and I Ps, regardless of product quality, while the market is receptive to those names and IP"
  3. "Dissolve Studio when those I Ps and Brand name no longer meets financial goals"

Because that IS EA's business model.

Does EA want to kill studios? No. But killing studios is a side effect of EA's culture and method of doing business. It's the venture capitalist paradigm. You spend a fortune to buy something. You want to recoup your loses. So you're not going to sit down and let the new Studio take it's sweet time producing material. You're going to push for new stuff to come out now. Because you're already on the red with them and till they release something, you're not giving your money back. And you sure as hell didn't buy them "for the sake of the art" or "because you believed in them". You did it because their games ship several million copies and next time it happens you want that money to go you. and you want that next time to happen ASAP. Coz your stock holders are going to be asking you why you spent 860 million and have nothing to show for it yet. And that's how CE Os lose their jobs.

The only thing I've seen lately is that EA seems more willing to give studios a bit of leeway in what they do or how they do it. But does that make me think EA's now concerned about the name of the studios they bought? No.

IniuriaTalis Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 10th 2020 at 7:16:03 PM

Kay, so why do you think they want to save Anthem?

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 11th 2020 at 7:13:16 AM

So, Bioware claims they're redoing Anthem almost from the ground up.

...

Why?

Why do you want to save this versus moving onto a project people actually want you to do?

We have Mass Effect, Star Wars, and Dragon Age for you guys to work on.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 11th 2020 at 7:14:06 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
GoldenKaos Stanning Alicia Dominica from Convent Prioris, Terra Relationship Status: Married to the job
Stanning Alicia Dominica
Feb 11th 2020 at 7:19:36 AM

I mean, it all depends on whether they've suddenly developed a vision or not.

Feb 11th 2020 at 7:29:30 AM

Could be driven by EA quarterly reports, project leader pride or an actual reticence to attempt ANY of those other I Ps.

I reckon EA may look at Anthem then just say "nope" to letting them near the SW IP right now. They don't want another thing tainting that relationship.

if they can pull off a Taken king then great; but this didn't have Destiny's launch. That was driven by Bungie, who had the whole Halo / FPS brand behind them. Anthem doesn't fit any of the square holes that Bioware is known for, maybe Mass Effect (Sci fi) but not quite.

I hope they do it, I liked the gameplay loop, there just wasn't ENOUGH. And the open world felt REALLY wasted.

Feb 11th 2020 at 7:30:38 AM

And if they have genuinely developed a vision that can make the game good, then rebuilding it from the ground up would help with the serious consumer confidence issues they've been having recently.

Whether they are right and whether it will work is another question. But I'm pretty sure this is a decision made on the Bioware side, because EA would probably cut their losses and move on to the next project. Which isn't necessarily the wrong decision, mind; Know When to Fold 'Em.

M84 This is bad comedy. from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
This is bad comedy.
Feb 11th 2020 at 7:34:22 AM

Thing is, this is a recurring pattern with these kind of games. Just look at Fallout 76 which is preparing its own mass update overhaul thingy in Wastelanders.

Disgusted, but not surprised
GoldenKaos Stanning Alicia Dominica from Convent Prioris, Terra Relationship Status: Married to the job
Stanning Alicia Dominica
Feb 11th 2020 at 7:41:27 AM

One wonders if they're taking the wrong lesson from No Man's Sky?

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Feb 11th 2020 at 12:05:47 PM

I remember reading some of the disaster reports about Anthem and they were like, "We want this to be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT' and somehow ended up making something that feels like a cheap Destiny clone.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Feb 11th 2020 at 12:12:15 PM

Really ironic considering they forbid mention of Destiny.

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.

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