Anthem (Bioware's new property)

Apparently we are...

It's more like the initial decision to adopt Frostbite was made without the actual Bioware developers having a say. As in, the people who would actually have to make a silk purse out of the thing.

It's entirely plausible that even when the developers realized how troublesome Frostbite was to handle, their leadership dismissed or downplayed their concerns by chanting "Bioware Magic! Bioware Magic!" Whether this was due to genuine misplaced faith that crunch could solve everything or whether it was because Bioware leadership didn't want to face EA and say "yeah, we fucked up and can't handle Frostbite after all" or a bit of both...who knows.

One thing that article made clear was that Bioware's leadership was not really operating in the same reality as the actual developers.

Andromeda could have been a wake up call to Bioware leadership. But then Inquisition happened, and that worked out pretty well. That may have convinced Bioware leadership "hey, maybe we're getting the hang of Frostbite after all!" And to be fair, Bioware devs were getting the hang of Frostbite by that point.

Then during Anthem development EA decided to prioritize their sports games' development meaning Bioware was given low priority on Frostbite support. Bioware even had some of their more experienced Frostbite devs — ie, the ones who had figured out how to make that silk purse — transferred to the sports games development. So they were back to trying to figure out how to make silk purses.

Hence why I say EA isn't entirely blameless in Anthem being a shitshow.

So rather than Frostbite being a series of mistakes, it was one mistake that Bioware was just stuck with. It can be boiled down to the Bioware heads not realizing or not being willing to acknowledge that Frostbite was more trouble than it was worth.

Edited by M84 on Sep 21st 2019 at 1:46:41 AM

Inquisition came before Andromeda.

Either way though, Bio Ware's leadership has apparently become complacent, considering their MO for both Andromeda and Anthem is just:

"This game is full of bugs, we have to fix it."

"We're Bio Ware, it'll work out."

And no, it does not work out.

I was worried I was getting the releases mixed up. It's been a while.

And that, right there, was the biggest issue at Bioware. A misplaced faith that everything would just come together like magic no matter what hardships they faced.

A difficult to work with engine? Magic!

Only months to go with still no clear vision of what the game is even supposed to be? Magic!

And they believed this because they were Bioware. How could Bioware possibly fail? It's Bioware!

Edited by M84 on Sep 21st 2019 at 1:54:48 AM

There's two issues with this.

First, as it's been pointed out, inquisition happened before andromeda, so who saw andromeda and went "yeah it's the second game that has issues with frostbite and somehow it's even worse, let's keep going that way even though we have no incentive and no pressure to do so" ?

Second, even with the whole justification you give, the whole thing essentially boils down to a group of leaders making a bad decision because they have no idea how to make a video game and don't want to listen to people who do, nor to the feedback in front of them. It's a thing we know EA does all the time, while the only thing that points towards bioware's leadership doing the same thing is their unreasonable belief in last-minute crunch.

Bringing up andromeda and anthem as proof of their arrogance is kind of a circular argument. This game has ton of bugs because of the engine, so if you assume they're responsible for using it, it's proof of their arrogance, and if you don't, it really is just them trying to do their best with the shitty hand they're dealt. And if bioware is THAT arrogant, it makes it more believable they'd do something as dumb as sticking to frostbite, while if they aren't, it makes the idea of sticking to frostbite even more out-of-place.

But believing in last-minute crunch doesn't suddenly make you as ignorant as an EA executive. Rockstar was tone-deaf enough to praise their 100-hours weeks but RDR 2 is anything but a screwup of a game. Believing in crunch is an excuse to keep going despite the difficulties, but not for voluntarily adding more of them right off the bat.

And bioware's leadership background doesn't paint them at being inexperienced at making games to the point of not understanding the problems with frostbite. Flynn has worked as a programmer for the company for several years, he isn't some kind of executive outsider who never touched code in their life.

Edited by Yumil on Sep 20th 2019 at 8:16:42 PM

Another problem was that Bioware management saw fit to scrap the tools between each project. Meaning they weren't able to build on what they learned from the last game.

wait, they did ? Was that in the kotaku article ? Cause I don't remember anything about that one, do you remember the source for that ?

Here's a Youtube vid on the subject of Bioware and Frostbite

Remember that it wasn't the same team making each game.

It does note that we don't actually know if Bioware stuck with Frostbite due to pressure from EA or not. Though I'll note that nothing we've actually heard from anyone, even former employees, has claimed that EA did force Bioware to stick with Frostbite.

And while the vid's title may suggest otherwise, the vid comes to the conclusion that Bioware's woes are mostly due to Bioware's shitty management and not Frostbite's shortcomings.

Edited by M84 on Sep 21st 2019 at 2:36:37 AM

EDIT: NVM.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 20th 2019 at 5:16:07 AM

Except we weren't talking about EA being evil. This was about Bioware's mistakes and Anthem.

Edited by M84 on Sep 21st 2019 at 2:59:24 AM

Isn't the UK report already slapping them in the back of the head for that ?

Pretty nice vid m84, it was pleasant to watch, so thanks for that.

In addition to what said, EA isn't even the one behind 2k20. That would be 2K Games. I know EA sucks but at least make sure you're criticizing them for the right thing. EA is not the source of everything wrong in the industry.

Edited by TommyFresh on Sep 20th 2019 at 12:06:50 PM

My mistake, everyone.

I guess I somehow thought EA controlled all sports games including basketball.

I'll get rid of it.

To celebrate N7 day, Anthem has added in four cosmetic options for the Javelins that resemble several of the species from Mass Effect: A Turian suit for the Ranger, Asari suit for the Storm, Quarian suit for the Interceptor, and Krogan armor for the Colossus. You can also purchase the "Shepard Shuffle" emote... yes, that's the Commander's infamous dance. Yes, it's every bit as pathetic-looking as you could imagine.

These items are not gifts though: you'll either have to purchase them via premium currency (850 shards) or through a bunch of in-game credits (61,000 credits); that probably puts the real-world cost around $8 USD.

Bioware is also supposed to add in a new seasonal event called Icetide. It's not a huge update, just some time trial races, "snow globe storms", and seasonal rewards.

Edited by SgtRicko on Nov 12th 2019 at 3:37:18 AM

It's kind of fascinating how so much of Anthem is, "Stuff we've never done before!" Repeated ad nauseum and somehow came out looking like a poor Destiny clone. Maybe they should have done something they did and did well before.

https://blog.bioware.com/2020/02/10/anthem-update-february-10/

Translation, we'll keep it ticking over and making some incremental tweaks, but don't expect any real big developments?

Who knows. I'd love for the game to be made good because it has a ton of potential and a great universe, but who knows.

Sounds more to me like they are planning to try and do an FFXIV

Ugh, I wish they would just let Anthem die and move on to Dragon Age 4 instead.

I’m surprised EA hasn’t pulled the trigger already.

I'm kinda glad they arent? It's the first sign in how long that someone at Bioware might actually give a rat's ass about what they are making?

(That and considering all the news on DA 4 has been awful the longer they can rethink that the happier I am)

EA can't just pull the plug on Anthem, because it would be admitting that Bioware isn't the premium studio it once was. Between this and Andromeda, the company's rep is in the gutter. EA will need to salvage it if they want to make their purchase worthwhile.

You say that like EA's not got a backyard full of premium studios it murdered already.

Indeed. EA's killed many other studios for less.

At the same time, hopefully the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Anthem has caused the Bio Ware brass to sit up and take notice.

Edited by theLibrarian on Feb 10th 2020 at 8:18:55 AM

Yeah, but do you really think they like that reputation? They're known as the studio that buys properties for millions and makes them worthless. Of course that's not a good thing for them.