Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans

Do we really need multiple abridge series of the same show?

"They truly were a Aqua Teen Hunger Force"

Well, they will happen, because different content creators will make different abridged series.

And my problem is not JUST that the ending is depressing. Rustal won only because the plot basically twisted itself around to let him win. The circumstances of his victory were not “realistic”, they were obviously contrived to let him win, just because the writers wanted to make some point about no side being good or evil, and that even someone like Rustal can be a hero in a sense. A point that completely falls apart when he lets fucking Nobliss, a character deliberately designed to be hated, join his cause. I know Rustal doesn’t care if he is a hypocrite or not, but that just makes the reformations he brings feel out-of-nowehere. For that matter, Nobliss being killed in the end may have felt great and karmic for most people, but for me it felt hollow, because, in a way, he still died the winner.

Essentially, my problem with the ending is not just that it is unhappy, but it is unhappy because it makes everything that came before feel pointless. Tekkadan might as well not have bothered opposing Rustal- they could have spent the series sitting around doing nothing and it would still end the same way, except everyone who died might still be alive. And an ending that leaves the protagonist having accomplished nothing is perhaps the worst possible ending.

I realize I am beating a long-dead horse here, but I will end with this; the rest of you may be waiting for the upcoming movies, but after the crap fests of SEED Destiny and AGE, the kinda eh 00, and especially this ending, I have lost all interest in any non-Universal Century Gundam material. (And maybe Super Robot Wars, but after V and the addition of Cross Ange, another series I had a hard time watching, I have also lost interest in that series.)

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

And he died without knowing sho he was being killed for, making it kinda hollow.

And yeah, but then there always be comparisons. Like what happened whenever a none TFS abridge group tried their hand on a Dragon Ball property.

Edited by Cortez on Sep 25th 2019 at 10:14:08 AM

"They truly were a Aqua Teen Hunger Force"

The Arianrhod fleet vastly outnumbered McGillis and Tekkadan’s fleets and Rustal had a shitton of Dainsleifs. How is that a contrived victory?

To think that this was all Chocolate Man's fault.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Chocolate Man just needed to better think through his plans instead of murdering those close to him because they're an incovenience to hisideals.

Shit. Now I know who Edelgard reminds me of Mcgillis.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Edelgard isn't like Mc Gillis, she had a loving father And actually wins in one route.

And Edelgard actually cares about those close to her.

Plus there's Mc's past as a child prostitute and Edelgard losing her siblings to crest experiments and torture.

It's not really the same, unless you mean superficially.

Edited by Cortez on Sep 25th 2019 at 12:43:30 PM

"They truly were a Aqua Teen Hunger Force"

Macky did care, but his ideals were more important.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Alas he was too short-sided.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I already called that irc. They really are two peas in pod.

Both were abused as children, why should exact form matter? It's not like you can quantify amount of scars on someones heart by degree of abuse they got.

Edited by Tenzen12 on Sep 26th 2019 at 1:14:18 PM

Mostly because of how it actually plays out on screen. Rustal is allowed to put deep cover agents to enact false-flag operations wherever he wants with no build up (eg, the random anonymous pilot on McGillis' side that fires a dainsleif, thus theoretically justifying Rustal deciding to respond in kind). Rustal's ace pilots (Gaelio and Julietta) are outnumbered by Tekkadan's, have mecha that aren't as good, and have been explicitly shown to be less skilled in previous encounters, yet win all their encounters in the finale. Rustal's forces just generally get incredibly lucky (like the dainsleif shot that should have killed Rustal and Iok missing — yes, Julietta interfered with the shot, but she 1) happened to be close enough to do so, 2) actually managed to get an opening to intervene despite being in the middle of a duel with Mika at the time, 3) wasn't immediately murdered by Mika for letting her attention get divided, etc) while Tekkadan is incredibly unlucky (for the last five episodes or so, they manage to make some small progress due to struggling for it the entire episode, and then it's immediately negated by some random thing outside of their control).

Basically, the final battle is the same kind of battle that the protagonists have been fighting and winning for the entire series, except this time they lose despite being the strongest they've ever been. When you fight against 100-to-1 odds and win, then fight against 10-to-1 odds and win, then fight 1-to-1 odds and lose, it's narratively unsatisfying.

Really, the issue there is less that McGillis' plan was bad, and more that Gaelio somehow managed to survive without his knowledge despite the fact that he was left for dead in the smashed-open cockpit of his disabled Gundam in a battlefield surrounded by McGillis' men. And yet somehow both he and his Gundam (you know, the priceless heirloom that had been held by his family for centuries) managed to vanish into Rustal's custody without anyone apparently noticing.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

I fail to see how Rustal having inside man is anywhere close to surprising. I also disagree Fleet had significantly worse MT.

It should be also noted Tekkadan had lot of new meat with lot of them not having neural link.

As for dainsleif sniping it's less about Rustal being lucky as much as Tekkadan finally running out of luck.

I didn't say that it was surprising, I said it was unsatisfying. Rustal is consistently shown to have considerable "covert" assets in the form of spies, assassins, and saboteurs — but the way it was used in the ending undermined the narrative tension rather than adding to it. It felt less like an interesting twist that spiced up the story and more like a narrative cheap shot that made it harder to take things seriously. (For example: if Rustal can apparently place his agents damn near anywhere he likes, why not just have one of them shoot McGillis in the face?)

On the subject of MS, I was mostly talking about the McGillis vs Gaelio and Mikazuki vs Julietta fights in Earth orbit being bullshit. McGillis was repeatedly demonstrated to be a massively superior pilot to Gaelio, but Gaelio won both of their rematches despite not having any major advantages putting the fight in his favor. Similarly, Mika struggled against Julietta, despite both being a demonstrably better pilot and having several additional advantages (better mech, A-V system, etc).

Rustal getting lucky vs Tekkadan running out of luck is just semantics. It doesn't actually address the problem I had with it.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

The Kimaris Vidar has considerably more fire power than Bael, which just has a pair of very sharp swords. And during both fights, Gaelio was using the Alaya-Vinjana Type-E to use the full power of the AV system without any side effects, while McGillis was not able to do so without risking crippling himself.

Juietta is shown at a clear disadvantage against Mika the entire fight and the moment she sacrifices one of the Julia's arms to save Rustal from Shino, Mika is easily able to defeat her. I'd also dispute Barbatos Lupus Rex being a better mech than the Reginlaze Julia: that thing is a beast.

I find Juietta bein Mika’s rival hilarious cause....... she did so badly against him.

She was never a credible threat to him & she generally only survived or got one up on him because he was either distracted or just plain ignoring her.

She’s a downgrade from Ein who had a vendetta against him & at the very least did eventually evolve into a threat Mika took with some level of seriousness.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 26th 2019 at 3:32:07 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Well by the end that was the point, she just wanted him to stop fighting and destroying himself than actually have any bad intentions towards him.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

I guess that's better but it still makes her rather sad cause she fails at that too.

It's why I'm rather iffy on the idea of Juietta being a good female rep. Like I haven't seen the show in a year but I remember her kinda sucking.

Her onscreen performance wasn't impressive, she didn't accomplish much on her own, Galieo was a bigger & more successful badass than her, & at the end she almost died to a 2 foot in the grave Mika.

Sure it was Mika in a berserk Lupus Rex but the whole thing was obliterated yet she still almost died, only surviving cause Mika died at the exact last second.

Yes, yes I know she doesn't have a Gundam & all but ehhhhhh. :/

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 26th 2019 at 3:42:56 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Her whole thing was learning to be Rustal's successor, since that was his goal. How strength isn't everything, how she shouldn't make herself a cyborg to get stronger, unlike those who needed it, even if it means she's outclassed including by other female pilots, learning that Rustal was not the man she put on a pedestal, and learning to respect Tekkadan and realize that the desperation they fought with was proof of just how human they are.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Huh nice lesson, shame she had to learn it by being fed constant L's.

Honestly it kinda sounds unearned. She learns her lesson & reaches her goal by realizing how lowly & insignificant she is on the totem pole.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 26th 2019 at 3:53:15 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Defeat is a great teacher.

And to be fair, she is an orphan taken in by Rustal herself, she was the kind of person who normally ends up on the bottom of the totem pole. Rustal doesn't shy away that he uses even his unsavory acts to teach her, and to realize she doesn't want to be like that.

Unlike FUCKING IOK who despite every attempt by Rustal to teach him remains a blithering moron, and was born into a position that kept him from losing it.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 26th 2019 at 3:56:46 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Well I can't argue against that.

Defeat is the ultimate master after all.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Simply having more guns isn't what I'd call a major advantage — they mostly ended up in melee regardless, where having a bunch of ranged firepower doesn't help much. McGillis uses dual melee weapons pretty consistently throughout the series (it's what he defeated Gaelio with the first time), so it seems to be his personal preference rather than a limitation of the Bael.

As far as the A-V Type E, it's true that that's something in Gaelio's favor, but I don't feel like it should be enough to overcome their demonstrated difference in skill. Gaelio had the tech advantage in their Edmonton fight, too (Gundam vs non-Gundam), but McGillis still absolutely destroyed him. In their rematch, Gaelio has a similar tech advantage (both of them are in Gundams, but Gaelio has the A-V type E while McGillis is using a standard A-V systel), but manages to win a close fight. Maybe the intention was that Gaelio had improved between the first fight and the rematches, that gets basically no attention during season two, so it comes off like an Ass Pull at best.

She may be fighting defensively, but she still has the initiative for the entire fight. She's able to force Mika to keep his attention on her (instead of roving the battlefield and carving a path through dozens of mooks) and keep him from killing her. That's not "being at a disadvantage", that's winning the fight, because she's achieving her goals (neutralizing Tekkadan's most powerful asset) while he is not (helping Tekkadan defeat Rustal). The fact that she isn't killing him is irrelevant — she wins by keeping him busy long enough for Rustal to win the larger battle, even though she gets trashed at the very end.

And the skill that allows her to even keep up with Mika comes out of nowhere. Mika is an absolute monster and the only one who's even come close to going toe-to-toe with him is McGillis. Julietta doesn't have a Gundam, doesn't have an A-V system, hasn't shown off anything like Mika's feats of skill, and she's still able to fight him to a standstill for the entire battle. I guess it would be forgivable in isolation if it wasn't combined with everything else going wrong for Tekkadan simultaneously, as well. But as-is, it's just one more example of the script bending over backwards to justify Tekkadan losing in the end.

The fact that she gets wrecked and then both her and her mecha are back in 100% fighting shape in time for the next battle is also bullshit, incidentally.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Mika has been fighting nonstop and is heavily injured too boot from them dropping those weapons from orbit onto him and Akihiro. The fact she can keep up is because he's dying and his gundam lets him keep on going just a bit longer.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 26th 2019 at 5:27:37 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

The fact that despite having both feet in the grave & a destroyed mech, he still had the advantage just showcases the immense power difference between the 2.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

And even Mika and Akihiro will become exhausted in a battle of attrition, since unlike 00 the Gundams aren't so OP that the pilot can go nonstop for three days straight.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.