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BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Aug 4th 2016 at 7:53:32 PM

[up] As I mentioned on the Ultimate line, some things should be adapted from there and somethings shouldn't. I am not saying there are no good ideas that universe generated; but I am also not saying all of their innovation is a huge improvement over the mainstream universe. Ultimate line is successful in sales but in reception its rather mixed to negative. Well at least Ultimate Spider-Man is considered the best out of the line while the others are just mixed compare to their mainstream counterparts.

And that's thing I am judging off the films from; how true they are to the mainstream universe people are familiar with. I can understand elements from other universe appearing here and there, but as for judging in how true it is to the source material I am going more by the Main Universe rather than the supplementary ones. Hell, the Ant-Man movie was based more on the Mainstream universe than MC 2 when you consider Scott Lang's debut story and the overall plot of the movie (the only element of MC 2 was Hope, and even so she hardly resembles that character as she isn't trying to destroy the Avengers).

edited 4th Aug '16 7:56:39 PM by BigK1337

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dRoy Ready to Rant from The Happy Place Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ready to Rant
Aug 4th 2016 at 7:55:06 PM

I'm getting pretty sick of Wolverine.

Mother of god...You turned one of the hardest and best Champions into an absolute joke. - Zelenal
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
Aug 4th 2016 at 8:01:50 PM

[up][up]I think as a general rule the MCU borrows 616's stories and characters (Winter Soldier and Extremis storylines come from 616) and borrows Ultimate's aesthetic (Falcon's military gear, Cap's uniform and helmet, and good old Sam Jackson).

Ultimate Marvel as a whole was well received at first, until much later people only remembered "everyone's an asshole," "Cap hates France," and "Black Nick usurps White Nick."

edited 4th Aug '16 8:05:58 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Aug 4th 2016 at 8:09:16 PM

[up] Pretty much. Ultimate Marvel is only good with the modern day and more realistic setting it gave the heroes. Everything else . . . well at least Ultimate Spider-Man was a great way to introduce new readers to Spider-Man.

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flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
Aug 4th 2016 at 8:16:55 PM

[up]And gave us a new cool Spidey!

Back to X-People, how was Ultimate X-Men like? Beside "Ultimatum shat on it?"

edited 4th Aug '16 8:18:12 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
Aug 4th 2016 at 8:30:25 PM

I'm currently rereading it due to the recent film and its interesting. I would say that Magneto and Wolverine are indeed assholes.

The second arc is clearly what inspired the plot of X2. The film merged elements of that with God Loves, Man Kills. Like how Avengers merged plot elements of Ultimates #1, such as how the team was formed by Fury, Hulk vs Thor, and they come together to fight the Chitauri. With elements of Avengers #1 which had Loki as the main bad guy. The MCU takes way more than just the aesthetic of the Ultimate Universe.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:01:29 PM by ManOfSin

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Aug 4th 2016 at 9:56:04 PM

[up][up] Honestly just mixed feelings for me. It started out strong with first couple of volumes for establishing mutants in the universe, but eventually it fell prey to Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy that plague the X-Men mythos where more characters become unlikable jackasses and their cause becomes an aimless effort given the world they live in (and seeing how its the Ultimate Universe it pretty much happened immidiately).

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Aug 5th 2016 at 12:35:52 AM

Thought I should also point out this comment by Mark Miller.

“I just think that’s fun. Bill Jemas phoned me after he saw the first Iron Man film and said, “they’ve just done Ultimate Iron Man.” And I said, “what do you mean?” And he said, “Oh Tony Stark was never really like that before. He was a kind of suave, alcoholic billionaire. But that kind of craziness was really Ultimate Iron Man that they captured.” And Jon Favreau said they were going for that kind of thing. And I just see it as very flattering. Obviously, we don’t get any money for it or anything; it’s just our take on a character. But to me, that’s just fun.“

edited 5th Aug '16 12:37:00 AM by ManOfSin

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Aug 5th 2016 at 11:37:39 AM

To quote Saitama: Okay.

Not really trying to deny that the characters borrow elements from Ultimate Marvel. In fact I know there are obvious qualities to Ultimate Universe used in Marvel movies like people not believing 100% in Thor's God status, Hawkeye having a family, Cap and Bucky being the same age, and the whole Chitauri invasion. Some elements from that universe are good. However other elements (mainly character personalities not named Spiderman, Nick Fury and Iron Man) are best not adapted at all (do you really want obvious domestic abuser Hank, I sure as hell don't).

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flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
Aug 5th 2016 at 11:43:37 AM

I think MCU Nick Fury behaves more like 616, without LMD and speaks Jacksonese.

Non Indicative Username
Aug 5th 2016 at 1:09:36 PM

[up][up]

I agree and no X-character has the personality of any Ultimate incarnation, except Jean. Teen Jean in Stan Lee's run sucked.

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Aug 5th 2016 at 2:04:44 PM

[up] Of course. Chris Claremont is the X-Men Real Daddy.

Same for the Wasp during the 80s run for the Avengers.

Same could be said Invisible Women in John Bryne run. Though this one I see more as a rational character evolution as her character during Lee's run eventually becomes more assertive.

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Aug 6th 2016 at 12:00:22 AM

Did anyone notice the hints of Apocalypse being familiar with the Phoenix?

Aug 11th 2016 at 6:02:52 PM

@Swanpride

Really? Because I remember First Class having the least action out of any X-film. X1, X3, DOFP didn't have end of the world plots. X2 didn't even have that until the very end.

edited 11th Aug '16 6:03:27 PM by ManOfSin

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Aug 11th 2016 at 7:16:45 PM

Okay lets review the amount of action and level of stakes each movie have:

  • X-Men: Not a lot of action throughout the movie and the stakes are that the United Nation (and to the point all of New York) will be change into imperfect mutants like Senator Kelly (and we all know how that turns out). So its more in lines of saving the world's leaders rather than the world itself
  • X2: Plenty of action scenes happen in the movie. The main villains plan was indeed to kill all the world's mutants which Magneto then hijack to kill all humans.
  • X-Men 3: Couple of action scenes happen. And seeing how huge of a threat Phoenix in this movie is (as well as fan knowledge as to how dangerous an uncontrol Phoenix is) definitely counts as a save the world plot.
  • X-Men Origins Wolverine: There's a bunch of action scenes in this film. But the stakes are low.
  • X-Men First Class: There are a significant amount of really good action scenes of the same level as Avengers (by amount, though for final battles they differ but have the same level of awesome). The stakes for the movie is to prevent World War 3, which is bad.
  • The Wolverine: A lot of really brutal action scenes that is the solo Wolverine movie we should have gain. Of course the stakes will be small . . . until the appearance of Silver Samurai Super Mech. Seriously, way to kill the immersion with that shit!
  • Days of Future Past: This movie have the least number of action scenes (okay second least when compare to the first movie). The stakes aren't high as its them preventing an assasination . . . that is if you don't think fourth dimensionally. The stakes are actually high as it is actually preventing a Terminator like future where humans and mutants are under the fearful grasp of giant robots who can adapt to any mutant powers.
  • Deadpool: Shit loads of Crazy Awesome action. Stakes . . . not high, but who cares this movie is Crazy Awesome! The sequel will definitely have much higher stakes now that Cable is involve.
  • X-Men Apocalypse: Not a lot of action scenes to write about, but given its Apocalypse of course this is a world ending deal.

So far I say all of the X-Men related films have some kind of world ending plot while the solo films (Wolverine and Deadpool) are more personable. Number of action scenes in those movies are up to debate however.

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Aug 12th 2016 at 12:02:36 AM

In terms of scale the first X-Men movie was the smallest, but it had plenty of action sequences. The fights were generally one-on-one and the danger was about the potential danger, not the immediate damage (maybe 10 people died over the course of the film). The later films ramped up the group fights and the bodycount skyrocketed. Days of Future Past, when you account for the future Sentinel fights that bookend the film along with the smaller skirmishes (like Mystique attacking the soldiers in the tent, or Logan attacking the bodyguards) and the main action beats in the past, would probably be one of the more action packed of the films, as the others kept the action smaller until the climax

Aug 16th 2016 at 9:17:57 PM

Do you think they would have the balls to make Xavier fall for Jean like in the comics?

Aug 17th 2016 at 12:41:42 AM

Well that was a terrible idea then so it's be less 'balls' and more damaged frontal lobe.

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Aug 17th 2016 at 12:07:45 PM

[up] Agree. Look at how that worked out with Ultimate Marvel when they revive that interesting character tidbit. Nobody like that idea both in and out of universe. That pretty justify the creepy vibe that Deadpool implied as to why he does not want to join the X-Men in his title movie.

This is pretty much on the list of things nobody wants to bring up about Mainstream Marvel. It's up there with One More Day, Captain America being a Hydra Agent, all of Chuck Austin's run in the X-Men, and Avengers #200 (aka how not to write a story about rape, let alone as a milestone issue for a major super hero team).

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Aug 17th 2016 at 12:22:18 PM

[up] It's an example of how to kot write a story at all.

Aside from the rape it's just weird nonsensical and utterly pointless.

Even disregarding the rape it'd still be a baffling choice for a milestone comic.

Or any issue really but if it was just 234 or something you could just dismiss it as pointless filler

If you ignored the rape. Which you shouldn't.

TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Aug 17th 2016 at 12:38:25 PM

Captain America being a Hydra agent is actually being talked about quite a bit. It's a fascinating story direction and readers are intrigued by the ideological conflict being set up by having someone as morally upstanding as Captain America suddenly being part of an organization as unapologetically nefarious as Hydra - and the inevitable battle for the soul of a soulless organization that entails.

While the response to the reveal was heavily controversial, it's shaping up to potentially be one of the defining Captain America storylines.

edited 17th Aug '16 12:40:25 PM by TobiasDrake

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
Aug 17th 2016 at 5:14:54 PM

[up][up] I don't know if a story being weird, nonsensical and pointless being a valid criticism for how to not make a story, I mean I enjoy a lot of Grant Morrisson stories and those tend to be those qualities.

[up] Not arguing that it creates an interesting story dynamic, but the whole reveal did left a bad taste in people's mouth who views it as a major OOC Moment given how Hydra (especially in modern times) is viewed as a stand in for Nazism and how Cap is made to be a counterthesis to the Nazi beliefs.

. . . . . So who's going to bring this topic back on the Fox X-Men? Cause the closest thing I can think of is talking about potential New Mutants film after the success of Deadpool.

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TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Aug 18th 2016 at 8:32:57 AM

That's because it is a major OOC moment. The issue that followed the reveal details precisely how Captain America's history was rewritten by supernatural forces in order to create this sudden twist - which is pretty much exactly what readers guessed in that it's connected to the means by which he got his powers back in the event comic Standoff, which Captain America: Steve Rogers directly spins out of.

As is often the case with big developments in comics, people who don't read the comics only got that one page of Cap hailing Hydra and had no idea what to make of it. But readers are enjoying the title and it seems very unlikely that this will go down in Dork Age infamy alongside the likes of the Spider-Man Clone Saga or One More Day.

It also wasn't helped by the writer pretending that this is a serious retcon, but that also sorta makes sense in-context as he was basically playing along with the story's assertion. It's what Cap, under the influence of the plot, believes to be true.

Marvel isn't actually claiming that Cap's been a Hydra agent for his entire career. They just said that to hype the shocking twist before explaining it next issue.

edited 18th Aug '16 8:35:37 AM by TobiasDrake

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
Aug 18th 2016 at 8:44:39 AM

Also, Cap becoming a HYDRA agent only to show that "oops he's not lol" is nothing new.


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