Super Mario Maker

So, to summarize:

• Vertical levels are locked to sub-areas for some ungodly reason.
• Some enemies and features (including Blarggs, one of the most exciting things in the game to me, until today) are locked to the 3D World style.
• Some enemies and features are locked out of 3D World.
• The night themes automatically enable obtrusive features that can't be turned off.
• The two cool night features can only be used at night, and also they're locked to specific themes.
• Still no new power-ups.

So yeah, pretty disappointing Direct. My hype for the game took a major hit. Especially since my interest in co-op (or anything besides making and uploading stages) is zero.

On the other hand, the other exclusive style is definitely SMB2/USA, so there is a silver lining.

Edited by ThriceCharming on May 15th 2019 at 7:50:20 AM

I'm hyped for the game. All the new stuff has me sold.

Vertical levels only being in sub-levels makes sense because the main level needs to have the flagpole/goalpost/axe.

I always figured if we got vertical levels they'd be locked to sub-levels.

I am a bit iffy on the night themes and special stage features being tied to each other instead of independent, but it's not a dealbreaker. I kinda wonder what gimmick nighttime underwater, airship, and castle have.

By the way, does anybody know what's up with the "desert cave" looking themes at 3:31 and 7:09? The latter could just be SMB 1's desert with a semi-solid block being used as a makeshift cave background, but the former is a completely distinct platform color from SMB 3's usual cave theme.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on May 15th 2019 at 10:28:32 AM

Obtrusive, yes!!!

Um, there's nothing out of the ordinary at 7:09...and it's in SMB 3 style.

On the former, maybe you just get to alter the ground blocks too.

...No? It's the SMB 1 theme. Look at Mario's sprite.

I did and I couldn't find the thing you mentioned, I found Mario 3.

...

...

...

Well apparently, there are 2 different direct videos because now I found the thing you mentioned.

And yeah, it's just semi-solid platforms.

Still means there's two versions of the SMB 3 underground theme, though. One blue, one brown... And it's not related to the night feature.

Should I focus my efforts on the Super Mario Bros. 3 theme (my favorite 2D Mario game), or on the Super Mario World theme (one that's arguably prettier)? They each have their pros and cons.

SMB3 has the raccoon tail, better music, and the nicest sprites of the 2D set, but the ground theme floor tiles are so heinously ugly that it nearly puts me off making ground levels entirely. SMW has Yoshi, but an utterly butt-fugly Koopa sprite. There's nothing objectionable in the New Super Mario Bros. U style, but... I dunno, it just doesn't have the personality of the other two.

Decisions, decisions!

SMW is my favorite style, personally.

Doesn't look quite as outdated as SMB 1 or 3, has the spin jump and Yoshi, but has more flair and nostalgic charm to it than NSMB U.

Plus now we've got the athletic theme. I'm gonna make so many SMW Sky levels just for that.

One thing that's great about the SMW sky theme is that if you draw a single line of ground tiles, it looks like vines instead of clouds. It reminds me of the Treetops level from Mickey's Magical Quest. It's very pretty.

Then again, SMB3 has Blue Sky Athletics/"the SMB3 athletic theme," which I'm especially fond of. Those tower-like semi-solid platforms ought to lend the levels a similar fairy tale feel, too.

Man, I just don't know! And you wanna make a bunch of levels that feel like they all came from the same game, right? Like you're making your very own new Mario game. So mixing and matching styles feels kinda wrong.

Man, imagine if they let us make an actual World?

Like design a SMB 3-style map, assign a stage to each level tile, and throw in some other goodies like small minigame maps or secret exits. Sure, it wouldn't have much practical purpose, but it'd be a fun aesthetic way to arrange your levels for somebody to play.

I dunno, it seemed to take alot out of the developers to put those little symbols that represent level themes in the Endless Challenge world map.

Yeah, a world creator would be amazing if it was done right. I don't think it will be in the base game, but anything is possible for future updates.

That would honestly be one of my favorite additions, I don't care how impractical it is.

Anyway, I don't have any problem mixing and matching styles, so I generally go with whatever toolset works best for what I'm trying to make. For example, I usually default to SMW, but I used SMB3 when I was trying to make an ice-like level because its underground theme was the closest you could get back then. I expect to do the same here, given all the options. I mean, you've got this brand-spanking new 3D World style. Seems silly not to try it out at least once.

Edited by Berserker88 on May 16th 2019 at 4:25:45 AM

I honestly love the work they're doing with the SMB1 new styles. I thought the ghost house version in the first was just incredibly done, and I love what they've shown of the desert theme in this one.

All of the additions look great to me so far. Among other things, I'm already planning a Stranger Things themed level by combining an above-ground day level and an underground night level to be The Upside Down.

Another interesting idea that my kid had for me was making a level based on the "midnight zone" for undersea creatures - make a nighttime ghost house level with a permanently high water level, and have Mario explore the sunken depths. This would also be a neat callback to the sunken airship level of SMW.

While I do feel a bit disappointed that verticals seem to be locked to subareas, at least we have them. While I did kinda make one in the original, I'm definitely looking forward to a proper version now.

The only two things I wish we got word on are a) whether Mystery Mushroom costumes are back, and b) whether the new game will be able to access the levels we already made in the first.

While there's certainly a reason for it, if there was an option to move the goal to the sub area...they could totally give the option to make the main area a vertical level.

Though I'm not sure how many Mario games outside of the towers in NSMB actually do that and since the towers only ever lead to bosses...nevermind that then.

Well, if the new clear conditions didn't appear to still require touching a goal, you could use those to finish a vertical level. For that matter, you could use them to make Mario 64 style levels where you collect an item to finish.

Edited by FGHIK on May 16th 2019 at 11:18:40 AM

Or the '?' orbs from SMW.

I remember that the main reason I made my vertical level in SMB3 style was because the goal card didn't mess with the immersion nearly as much as the goal flag or gate would have.

For this, I presume that most vertical levels will be similar to how underwater and underground levels worked in the original SMB, where you entered a pipe and then played through an entire sublevel with another pipe leading to the goal flag (of course, noting that the entry to the sublevel was automatic in the original).

As for vertical levels in general... well, if you want to be precise, SMB2/USA was the original game with significant vertical level portions, and NSMB Wii is the first game with vertical-only levels. It's not a concept the series has played much with, to be honest. I'm looking forward to building a Fire Clown Car vertical level... that should provide some new challenges (particularly from a design standpoint).

I'm excited for the possibility of ending a level by collecting an item/enough items (or perhaps just setting the level goal be "Beat Boom-Boom" or some other boss), because I do admittedly find the level flag/gate/card to not fit every style of level I want to build (again, said tower). These are options that greatly expand what I hope to do.

Mind you, the clear conditions seem to just be on top of standard goals, not a replacement; the flagpole/axe/goalposts/card just isn't active until the condition is met.

I kinda wish the water, lava, and poison bog weren't locked to jungles and castles. Would have liked to make a cave stage with a water or lava tide, or an ice level with a lava tide.

Beat the level without touching the ground.

Beat the level without getting hit.

Beat the level "as" Super Mario.

Apparently Toad escort is another victory condition, like in some NSMB U stages.

Also, nighttime version of underwater is just like the Ghost House, so making a dark undersea trench is an option. Now if only we had giant Unagi to chase Mario in the dark...

Finally, my favorite NSMB Wii missions.

Edited by randomness4 on May 16th 2019 at 1:38:52 AM

Something I noticed is that the SMB3 forest theme isn't a forest, but a mechanical theme. You can see a few shots of SMB3 with mechanical looking structures, tanks, and water, but nothing that looks like forest.

Mario 3's Jungle theme is only shown once at the beginning...At Night.

Looking at it, it's like a sewer area.

The ground and background details look pipe stuff.

The one with the faux tank is the desert theme.

Edited by randomness4 on May 16th 2019 at 2:48:11 AM