Ready Player One, the film of the book

And the whole thing is being blamed on internet culture.

Sorry, it's just I don't buy what the article is selling.

Doxxing and harassment is terrible but it's something I don't see as particularly new or part of a larger super culture that is endemic to all geekdom,

I could be wrong. I hope not.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

You don’t see how greater and more efficient connectivity over greater distances can make harassment, bigotry, and oppression easier to organise, especially when the people helping engineer it are ideologically opposed to any abridgement of speech or of access? I mean, c’mon, that’s basically a tautology.

What's precedent ever done for us?

It makes it easier to organise in the same way that it makes everything easier to organise. It also makes protests for good things easier to organise, especially good things that entrenched interests dislike, because the internet makes shutting down conversation really hard.

I guess whether that makes the internet a good or a bad thing just boils down to "can humanity be trusted with its own technology".

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

No, I understood it fine, I just disagree with the way it tackles the subject. But thanks for assuming that I only disagree with you because I'm objectively wrong.

So what you're saying is that we need to be suspicious of the corporations that curate much of our online experience, as profit-motivated actors cannot be trusted to act in the name of social good? Because that sounds a lot like RPO's point to me.

RPO is an explicit rejection of the idea that the internet doesn't matter because it's "not real". Its setup flips that on its head — to Wade, the "real world" is the distraction and the Oasis is all that "really" matters, at least at first. This is unsubtly shown to be the attitude of an immature asshole, and he grows out of it over the course of the book. Keep in mind that he doesn't just find the Egg and that magically solves all his problems. He has to take action against IOI in the real world, and the company collapses not because he uses his newfound wealth to buy them out and dismantle them or anything like that, but because he took real action outside the Oasis in order to expose them and seek justice for their crimes.

One aspect of utopian fiction (which RPO is, in reference to the Oasis, even as it's dystopian in reference to the real world) is to show the failure modes of the utopia. The Oasis is perfect and great because Halliday was a pure soul who designed it that way. The failure mode is that it's corrupted by corporate influence that places pursuit of profit over the good of society. The answer to this threat is to take direct action, not just online but in the real world, against those bad actors that pose that threat to society.

The message here is clear. Online action is not enough. To affect the real world, you have to work in the real world — though online action can help boost your signal and act as a force multiplier for your real-world action.

You can argue that RPO drops the ball by not showing that this is possible for the bad guys as well as the good guys. By casting the players of the Oasis as the plucky heroes standing up to the corporate stooges of IOI, it ignores the 4chans and Breitbarts and Stormfronts that exist primarily online but are undeniably the bad guys. That's fair — there's no online counterpoint to the IOI, an anti-gunter faction that want to win the egg in order to, I don't know, remove all non-PVP zones from the Oasis so they can let assholes just murder newbies constantly because that's the way they like it, so they think that's the way it should be for everyone.

It's true that RPO doesn't tell that story. But "it didn't tell the story I want" doesn't strike me as a valid criticism of a work when it's already telling a valid story of its own. Is a story about social justice bad because it doesn't address climate change? Is a story about climate change bad because it doesn't address economic inequality? Is a story about economic inequality bad because it doesn't address social justice?

The point of that subplot was not that "it doesn't matter" or "the internet has fixed it", it was that "it makes life easier because they don't have to deal with it 100% of the time no matter what". Aech's life is easier than it would be otherwise, because she's able to make a living as a professional gamer without her gender, race, or sexual orientation affecting her livelihood. Would it be better if she could be out as a black lesbian and still not have to worry about it affecting her livelihood? Yes, absolutely. But we're not there yet, and this is better than the alternative.

edited 21st Apr '18 10:25:43 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

@SB: Let me put it this way - why do you think that this site has mods? Similarly, why do you think the real world has laws? The answer is simple - to prevent behaviour that’s personally advantageous but socially destructive. Online spaces are posted in by real people, and the real world is, at present, unequal and bigoted. That means that bigots will appear in an online space, and without moderators, they will do their level best to drive off and exclude anyone they are bigoted against. In other words, people who are marginalised in real life will be even more marginalised in spaces where the usual social conventions and safeguards do not apply. There’s innumerable case studies of this, from Reddit to 4chan. A space that tolerates, say, white supremacists will soon find itself tolerating only white supremacists because nobody else is willing to put up with their shit.

@Jovian: The basic problem is that RPO the book does a very weak and inconsistent job of showing the OASIS to be anything other than a paradise, and that in its choice to tell a different story, RPO is skimming over the 4chan story in ways that perfectly illustrate the cultural blind spots of the time. Remember that Wade chooses to continue thinking of Aech as a man despite learning her true identity (he makes this explicit during the preparations for the final battle). He accepts her because she’s spiritually a straight white dude like him. Her choice of avatar isn’t treated as an unfortunate compromise, but as a chance for her to be what she should be.

That’s what’s so creepy about it all, in a way that serves as a perfect metaphor for the real-world tech-bro assumptions that fucked the world in the following decade - the OASIS isn’t an opportunity to celebrate multiple cultures and identities, but an opportunity to share in the single culture and single identity of its creator.

What's precedent ever done for us?

I am pretty sure people in general are more confrontational on forums or imageboards than they are in real life. In turn, it leads to debates turning into confirmation bias, and extremist positions being reinforced.

Also, now, when you have a fringe opinion like some stupid conspiracy theory or racial superiority thesis, you'll find hundreds of similar minds to discuss with and reinforce your point of view. A few years back, chances were, you were alone, which significantly increased the odds of realizing that maybe thinking that Earth is flat is just wrong.

The internet can have a magnificent effect on individuals. But on societies? Less sure. One of the current investigations of the Mueller team is to see if and how a foreign power managed to influence the US elections simply by using trolls - forty years back, it was a tiny bit more complicated to weigh on foreign elections without an army standing at the border.

I don't know if the 4Chan Story NEEDS to be part of Ready Player One.

It elevates the idea of toxic internet culture more than it needs to.

It's like doing a story about people's love of video games but saying, "You know what this story needs? Racist Call of Duty multiplayer players."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

I mean, that's not wrong? But it still seems like "it told the story it told, instead of this other story that I care about more", though, and I already explained why I don't think that's a useful criticism to make.

That said, I'd make a great basis for a sequel. Now that Wade is running the Oasis, he has to find a way to deal with the Oasis equivalent of 4chan and Stormfront. Of course, I don't think I'd trust Cline to write that sequel. I like RPO and don't think that it's a pile of miserable nostalgia-flavored shit like most people do, but that doesn't mean I think Cline's up for tackling that subject matter in a way that anyone would want to read.

That's a huuuuuuge jump that I don't think is present in the text at all. He decides to keep calling her "he" because that's how he'd know her for years and he didn't want to stumble over pronouns in the middle of the big climactic battle — it's not like he referred to her as "he" even outside the Oasis. There's also the fact that it would be incredibly dickish to out someone against their wishes — she specifically made a white male avatar because she wanted people to think she's a straight white male. Running around calling her "she" in public would kinda negate the purpose there.

It's treated as letting her be herself, free from prejudice. While it doesn't go deep into the implications of the fact that a black lesbian isn't free to simply be themselves, we're clearly not supposed to see the fact that she has to hide her race, gender, and sexuality as a positive. It's absolutely not "oh, sweet, you get to act like a straight white male, and no one will know you're actually not! Lucky you!". Cline doesn't pretend that the Oasis has solved bigotry just by letting minority groups pretend to be non-minorities.

edited 21st Apr '18 5:37:03 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

I think the bit with Aech is a ham fisted but still well intentioned way of showing that Wade isn't a bigot and that it's cool to be black and gay.

Also, his growth beyond making assumptions.

It's just handled with the subtlety of a sledgehammer—and you know, maybe that's a good thing if people really do think a large portion of the fandom is a bunch of toxic assholes.

edited 21st Apr '18 5:12:03 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Some interesting points made by both sides here. While I'd hesitate to make a blanket statement like "People are morally worse now than in the past and the Internet is why," I have heard of studies that indicate that excessive Internet and smartphone use can inhibit empathy, as the brain struggles to process someone interacted with on the net as a "real person" and ergo you feel you feel less consequences for being horrible to them than you would in face-to-face interaction.

edited 21st Apr '18 5:29:02 PM by HamburgerTime

Studies can be misleading, especially in such sweeping conclusions.

There's also been plenty of studies showing that the internet has also broken down a lot of pre-existing prejudices and massive creation of information sharing which wouldn't normally be the case.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/imploding-lawsuits-fundraising-troubles-trailer-park-brawls-has-the-alt-right-peaked/2018/04/20/0a2fb786-39a6-11e8-9c0a-85d477d9a226_story.html?utm_term=.47e19d2d2917

This is a bit of an irony. The Alt-Right is apparently collapsing into infighting.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Uuuuuhhhhhhhhh wrong thread?

Is it?

We were talking about internet culture having given rise to the Alt-Right.

Now it's collapsed due to, according to the article, internet backlash.

But WAYYY off topic I suppose even linekd.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

So I don't know if this was posted before, but it's pretty interesting. With "Rogue One Tarkin" and "Mustache-less Superman" falling well into the Uncanny Valley, I had figured the technology to convincingly CG humans was still years away, but apparently we just got there.

If you don't see it, pay attention to his hair and forehead.

edited 21st Apr '18 10:08:36 PM by Tuckerscreator

I didn't even noticed that!

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.

Just watched the film.

Wow, this was pretty damn trashy and shallow. It solely gets by on its visuals and cool concept.

The only character that was interesting was Artemis.

The main character is basically this creepy nerd that falls in love with someone after two days without knowing who they actually are. The story could've gone in an interesting direction if it had been a guy but nah, it's just this beautiful woman with a birthmark.

And the movie ends with the main character getting everything he wants.

The love scenes were really groan-worthy btw.

Also of course, the one of only two Asian gamers, uses a samurai sword irl.

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."

Well, I didn't find Wade that shallow but your pick.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.

After World War 2, there was this conventional wisdom that industrial technology was at fault for enabling the Holocaust. The idea was that having access to rail lines and gas chambers were what let the Nazis kill in the numbers they did.

This is a myth.

The Rwandan genocide proved otherwise. Rwanda, as a country, had none of these things- and the Hutu génocidaires didn't need them. All you really need to kill people in large numbers, practically speaking, is a few rowdy young men, a list of names and a blunt instrument. Given this, I'm strongly disinclined to believe any such stories about the internet enabling genocide.

I hope you can see why this kind of argument appears to me and many others as just another "new media is evil, get off my lawn you damn kids" tirade.

edited 21st Apr '18 10:56:49 PM by Gault

yey

I dunno, there's other examples of swift technological advancement enabling more widespread violence. I am not sure World War I would've been as destructive as it was in our history if it were fought without machine gun turrets, poison gas, radio, planes, and tanks.

edited 21st Apr '18 11:06:05 PM by Tuckerscreator

It's actually been possible to near perfectly recreate static expression faces with CGI for a long time, the difficulty has almost always been animation and expression. It's the same thing with a wax figure versus an animatronic. Not to say that wasn't exceptionally good CGI, but I figured as much when the camera eventually phased into his head and became his POV.

There's kind of a weird thing about World War 1 that the reason it lasted so long and became so nasty was also because technology wasn't advanced ENOUGH. Planes and tanks pretty much made the war much much faster.

Too fast, sadly, for the sequel in France.

Plus, well before this, was the Thirty Years War.

edited 21st Apr '18 11:04:22 PM by CharlesPhipps

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Interesting, because looking at stills of Rogue One Tarkin and Rogue One Leia I can still tell they are CG, but not with stills of the stock footage pilots in the climactic Scarif battle. So I'm not sure it's just animation, or perhaps how Spielberg got higher quality graphics than Disney.

edited 21st Apr '18 11:06:34 PM by Tuckerscreator

War is a bit different, I was talking specifically about genocide.

yey

In this particular case, they had the actual actor on set to recreate the exact lighting conditions and associated skin tone for the CG swap. The biggest issue with CG Tarkin (and evidently CG Leia) is that they didn't actually have 1977 Peter Cushing to get the look perfect, the CG model was done through meticulous study of his films and overlayed with mo-cap. I would say the CG work for young Arnold in Terminator Salvation and Genisys was slightly better, in large part because of what I said about static expressions and they had a number of plaster molds from the previous films as reference.