New DuckTales Animated Series

And I think I remember Frank mentioning on twitter that, that the creative team did get a say on the airing order this time, at least.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 25th 2018 at 9:38:30 AM

Honestly the out of order episodes didn't bother me as much as the hiatuses, mostly because I'm completely sick of that model.

They're part of the reason I don't keep up much with series like Steven Universe anymore. Why should I give a damn when the world and characters I enjoy are just going to disappear for the next several months on a fairly consistent basis (when a major plot twist happens, basically)?

Edited by Etheru on Sep 25th 2018 at 6:45:27 AM

yeah, there’s been one or two hiatuses since it came back, but it’s only been for a a few weeks at most, and the Hiatus between seasons is understandable, and not nearly as bad as the first one.

If you want to get a new appreciation for the impact of representation in media, the Amores Patos review of “Who is GizmoDuck” is great. Both of the hosts are Latinas, and they were so excited to talk about Fenton and Mamá, and really picked up on a lot of the subtle things like the “bendiga esta casa” sign over his front door, and Beak’s micro-aggressions towards Fenton.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 25th 2018 at 10:28:33 AM

Ducktales' hiatus did not cause it to migrate south to Disney Channel. ALL the cartoons on XD did the same.

"But what I just realized is that the show has a sliding timescale. The kids aren't gonna grow up and their birth year has been left deliberately ambiguous. And that means that with each year that passes, Scrooge will be even older by the time he makes his first million. 77 next year, 78 the year after that, as "75 years ago" gets even further from 1867.

That's kind of amazing."

It's not amazing. It's lazy writing. If it's important that Della has been missing for 10 years, and that Magica has been imprisoned for 15 years, please give the children proper ages rather than just an age range.

Having Scrooge and his parents be over 150 years old thanks to "magic" feels very shallow and superficial too.

"Review of Shadow War, especially focusing on all the peculiar story points that seemed to have been glossed over in this board, and are also very legit things to question. Like ... why would Magica manifest her shadow alter ego in the form of a rebellious teenager, as an example?"

People have been trying to point out those plotholes in the YMMV sections of both the main page and episode-specific pages, but fanboys/fangirls on this site keep on deleting them.

"As was discussed earlier, this may have happened because the writers came up with the rebellious teenager first, and only later came up with Lena being Magica's shadow puppet."

I would qualify that as a Dethroning Moment for this show, but I'll wait if Season 2 does anything interesting with it.

But if the writers just gloss over this issue and waste any interesting potential plots, then yeah, the "Lena is a Shadow" aspect (which I hate - in fact, I'm the one who put that in the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot on the YMMV page for the show) deserves to be panned.

"If people really think that Della won't be forgiven, they should remember that Dewey was easily forgiven for keeping his quest for Della a secret, and they have similarly forgiven Scrooge pretty quickly, too, all things considered. And besides, ultimately it is still a kids' show, and a Disney show to boot. No way they are going to be THAT dark about it."

Well... some of us would like it to be.

"Is it also a bit odd that Webby is so obsessed with the triplet's mother (and ONLY the mother, oddly enough), but never once relates to them about her own dead/missing parents? It feels like a missed story opportunity."

That's what I said on the YMMV page.

"Just look how cleanly that fallout over Dewey keeping his quest secret was smoothed over, or indeed the whole fight with Scrooge."

That was some of the biggest letdowns of Season 1. All those emotional moments just glossed over and shrugged off. The writers should take notes from Avatar: The Last Airbender and Transformers: Animated on how to write emotional dramas with lasting consequences.

In general, Disney and DuckTales are capable of being Darker and Edgier, but they should sustain that for more than an episode if they want to keep older viewers' attentions.

Edited by BrightLight on Sep 26th 2018 at 6:47:46 AM

Put all of these responses in one post.

"Like I said, for all its pretense of being a "mature" show, at heart it is still a children's cartoon with simple emotions and simple resolutions to emotional conflict. Don't expect too much soap drama out of this show."

Well, the writers better step up their game in the coming seasons. Back when this show was on hiatus, I had high hopes for it. The first half of Season 1 was both emotionally engaging and entertaining.

If they don't learn how to balance the silly fun with gritty drama, I'm dropping this show from my Top 10.

Oh, sorry.

I'm just on catch-up. First time here on any of these discussion forums.

From now on I'll try to.

"Yeah one thing:

... if Beakley and Webby left at the same time on a vacation, why, at the start of Shadow Wars, do we see Webby alone, with the nephews, going on their boat? What happened in that time??"

I'm just gonna put it down to lazy writing. Another person stated that Beakley and Webby could've met up with the boys and Donald in Cape Suzette rather than both sides having not left Duckburg at all yet, but the writers wasted a perfectly good plot.

"I also feel Lena being just a shadow somewhat diminishes her character arc. If she was never a real person to begin with, that diminishes the emotional impact of a lot of her previous scenes."

THIS. THIS IS SPOT ON. SO MUCH.

"(I did find myself rolling my eyes at the Webby/Magica brawl)"

Glad I'm not the only one who has a problem with that. Sadly, other fans are blinded to criticisms.

"And I wasn't entirely satisfied by the pay-off in regards to fallout from the previous episode."

Everything was pretty much resolved easily, that's why the pay-off is disappointing.

Scrooge and his family separated? They're back in the end, no problems. No doubts.

Lena is seemingly killed? She lived a good life, move on now Webby. Go swim in the money.

Della is missing, possibly dead? Nah, don't keep the audience in suspense, go ahead and reveal that she's alright and alive on the moon, even though that could've been saved for the Season 2 premiere.

On a final note, it seems that the first two episodes of Season 2 won't be dealing with any fallout from the Season 1 finale. Heck, given that the first episode will have the family getting obsessively competitive each other over what seems to be a board game, the (ham-fisted) lessons on the importance of family won't seem to have stuck for long either.

I won't make final judgments until I've watched the premiere episode at least, but from reading the episode descriptions, I'm preparing myself to be disappointed.

I think a lot of what happened in “Last Crash” was driven by stress and shot tempers. The stress the characters are dealing is palpable, and the Della revelation was the last straw on a bad day.

Think about it. How different would it have been for the kids to find out be at home, with Donald and Scrooge there to tell the story. It still would have been devastating, but I imagine that their reactions would probably have been a lot different. Their would have probably been some justifiable anger and Scrooge and maybe Donald for not telling them, but I don’t think it would have been nearly as devastating. And this was most certainly not ideal circumstances.

Instead, their reactions were probably fueled by the stress of the situation, hurt, and a need to see their mother as a hero. Remember, Huey and Louie were just sad at first, until Dewy started getting angry and blaming Scrooge. Scrooge was just a convient scapegoat to take out all the stress and anger they were feeling, and Scrooge lashing out at them, seals it.

By the next episode, they had some time to cool down, and start to work though it a bit.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 26th 2018 at 3:30:42 PM

Just off the top of my head, YMMV isn't the place for perceived plot holes, which would probably explain why your posts were deleted. That's what the Fridge tab is for.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 26th 2018 at 12:43:29 PM

Bright Light, please calm down, and please stop making so many multiposts. Its against the rules and you could be banned for it.

A good way to avoid having to serial post/serial edit a very long post is to write it in Notepad. Notepad also allows you to copy paste the entire text, with punctuation intact (Word will wreck your apostrophes).

I wouldn't be surprised if they keep glossing over the heavier stuff. Like I said before, they still write it like a kids show, where emotions are written relatively simple, and emotional conflicts always have an easy resolution. I can predict right now that they will find an easy and clean way to bring Lena back to full life, and she will be just like a real person again, and there will be only minimal angst over her past.

This show is a lighthearted comedy with the occasional pretense of drama, it is not going for high drama or, heaven forbid, full on tragedy. Maybe some day some studio will be brave enough to produce an ACTUAL Darker and Edgier Ducktales, but I doubt Disney will allow it.

So what did you think about Donald being kept out of the Della plot, when it is his OWN sister, Bright Light? I thought that was perhaps the biggest dissapointment of that arc.

Okay, first off, sorry for the multi-post earlier. Thanks for informing me of the rules.

Now, glad that I can talk to you, Redmess. If you've read my posts, I was answering (and agreeing) to quite a bit of your posts.

I'm just being blatantly vocal about the show's flaws because it's what keeps the show from crossing the boundary line from "Great" to "Masterpiece". Other kids' shows like Clone Wars, WITCH and Rebels - heck, even the New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh - aren't afraid to deal head on with drama and tragedy and how trauma can change characters. Those shows weren't afraid to step out of the idealistic light side and go over to the dark and moody side for some complex and deep stories before going back gradually. Three of the above shows are from Disney, and one of them is even recent, so I don't know why they can't break the little-child-friendly mold more often these days.

"I can predict right now that they will find an easy and clean way to bring Lena back to full life, and she will be just like a real person again, and there will be only minimal angst over her past."

I swear, if that happens, I'm gonna discard DuckTales 2017 from my favorite shows list - and it will take some serious writing skills to get it back on there. Lena's character (along with most of her arc) is one of the best things to happen in a Disney show, and if the writers won't explore that to its fullest potential, then what was the point of getting us invested in the first place?

I mean, this is one of the best Disney shows I have ever seen in a long time. This show can go down as one of the all-time greats in television history - if Disney would be willing to push their usual boundaries and make the show truly for everyone, not just little kids.

As it is now, the show is merely a great Disney show. Just a great Disney show. That's it. Because the writers and the studio are not pushing the envelope.

"Maybe some day some studio will be brave enough to produce an ACTUAL Darker and Edgier Ducktales, but I doubt Disney will allow it."

Why though? Doesn't Disney take a look at shows like Avatar and Transformers Animated and wonder: "How can we compete with great shows such as those?"

Transformers Animated is probably the go-to show for how to write proper Heroic Sacrifices.

Avatar isn't even violent and gory. Just action-packed with well-written drama. There's even only a body count of 2 during the events of the entire series.

Why can't Ducktales have proper heroic sacrifices, proper drama, and touch on the theme of death? Especially when it goes out of its way to stress how perilous some adventures and foes can be.

As critics have noticed, the show goes out of its way to AVOID death. Scrooge's parents are still alive. Goldie's still alive. Duckworth is present as a ghost (no worries about death being a final goodbye in this life). Della is alive.

How long can Ducktales keep up an atmosphere of pathos and danger if there is no long-term consequence for any of the good guys?

Little kids may be satisfied, but what about the interests of older viewers?

Sorry about using this saying but people have to be reminded more often, "Just 'cause a show targets kids, doesn't excuse it from being of poor quality."

Even though Nick and Cartoon Network are past their prime at the moment, in the past they have provided masterpiece shows for everyone.

Heck, in the past, Disney has done masterpiece shows. So what's stopping them now? And saying "think of the little kids" isn't a good excuse.

"This show is a lighthearted comedy with the occasional pretense of drama, it is not going for high drama or, heaven forbid, full on tragedy."

Regarding that, please do explain the appeal of that kind of show. Under normal circumstances, I don't get why a sane viewer would become a dedicated fan of a show like that.

Now the above points are over...

"So what did you think about Donald being kept out of the Della plot, when it is his OWN sister, Bright Light? I thought that was perhaps the biggest dissapointment of that arc."

It was a huge flaw that became apparent on the writers' part.

And adding to that, the writers should've let Huey and Louie find out about Dewey's secret, in Day of the Only Child. That could've been a great reason for the brothers splitting up, but no (which was one of the biggest reasons why Day of the Only Child was trash). Instead, the episode where Huey and Louie find out is also the same episode where they reconcile with Dewey. Sigh.

Back to why Donald wasn't in on the mystery more, the writers would've had to write some proper, long-term drama. And it's clear that at the moment, they aren't up to snuff for the task.

Don should've gotten to tell his side of the story. He and Scrooge needed an extra scene to reconcile at the end of the finale. More emphasis should've been placed on how much he sacrificed to give HDL a stable home (as much as possible), and how often the triplets don't appreciate that. Donald should've gotten involved in Only Child Day, being one of the reasons why the boys would achieve a deeper appreciation for each other - after all, Della's absence leaves him a sad and lonely only child, doesn't it?

On that note, there are VERY IMPORTANT story details that Francisco Angones put up on Tumblr that SHOULD'VE been given screentime in the season for maximum emotional drive.

Hortense and Quackmore should've been brought up more often - they died, for Pete's sake/ And that's the reason why Scrooge raised Della and Donald just as Donald does so with HDL in the present. But most of us don't know that backstory, do we? Because no one ever bothered to bring that up at all in Season 1.

There's more interesting backstory for the show that one can find ONLY on the social media of the writers, but the above plot point is a major detail that should have gotten focus during the first season.

It would've justified more screentime for Donald, as well as providing more emotional punch to Scrooge losing Della.

There should have been a scene where Donald talks with the boys about their mother, and one of them should've brought up why he never fulfilled his responsibility to let Della's sons know what happened to her.

And once again, because it hasn't been stated enough, Donald's role as a parent to the boys should've gotten more focus and appreciation. Donald has been both the father and mother that the boys have lacked all their lives. Give that the emotional credit it deserves, writers.

Heck, Spiderman does it. Kung Fu Panda does it. Why can't you do it, Ducktales?

And... yep. That's all points answered. TTFN. Ta-ta for now.

I think it’s implied that Donald didn’t want to tell them because she, intentionally or not, basically left them, as well as the fact that he just wanted to move on.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 26th 2018 at 12:21:10 PM

We don't need a darker and edgier Ducktales.

Edited by Envyus on Sep 26th 2018 at 12:05:50 PM

I think part of why Disney is reluctant to go farther with Ducktales is that these characters are closely guarded icons of the studio now. These characters have a long history and a very expensive brand image, so writers aren't allowed to do just anything with them. You can be sure that Disney is looking over the shoulders of the writers constantly and screening what THEIR characters are doing and saying, how their characters are being portrayed. And Disney is still selling this show to kids, and by extension, to their parents, who will be up in arms if Disney allows this show to veer too much into Darker and Edgier territory.

Avatar and other original shows, in contrast, have the benefit of having new, original characters that are not tied to a brand image or to a specific traditional audience. This allows those shows to take bigger risks, both with the property and their audience.

Not everybody has the same time or patience for darker, more continuity-intensive series (especially when said shows take a while to get on streaming platforms). Some people like to just get comfy and watch something they enjoy. And it's not like the type of show described can't have interesting characters or solid plotting.

Edited by Etheru on Sep 26th 2018 at 4:38:53 AM

Once again this show does not need to go into Darker and Edgier territory.

I am not saying that it should. I am only explaining why I don't think this show ever will do that.