The Armored Vehicle Thread

The Abrams is not actually cripplingly overspecialized especially given the fact nearly every other tank faces a lot of the exact same limitations. Pretty much all modern tanks have been relying heavily on an increasingly wide variety of munitions to give them flexibility but the cost is the more variety of rounds the fewer of each specialized shot there is in stowage. Part of the reason being adding something like auto-cannon caliber guns adds complexity, weight, cost, and eats into available stowage. So tanks largely lean on their compliment of machine guns and specialized ammo options. The Abrams actually has wound up using more varieties of rounds to do more jobs than even the T-90 which on average carried three different types of projectiles rather than up to four or five.

To emphasize the point look at the AMP. This was a project across several years to create a shell that does something similar to the multi-role sensor fused ammo that is increasingly becoming the munitions of choice because it offers flexibility with a more reasonable round count. AMP literally has comparable capabilities across four different rounds. If you split your rounds evenly between the Anti-Armor shots and your multipurpose rounds in current Abrams you get 21 Sabot rounds and five of each of others plus one. Meaning if you want more of one type you have to give up some of the others. The AMP round makes this less problematic giving you a more broad capability but without the fight for round balance. The issue with the Abrams wasn't crippling overspecialization it was we have been literally trying to do everything with just one tank.

Yeah the tanks are pretty damn heavy and part of that weight is from armor reinforcement across the frontal arcs and the addition of slat armor. Era adds nearly 3-4 tons depending on the ERA kit. ERA tends to add weight in the a few tons because it is metal plates with specialized explosive filler between them and the plates are typically armor grade steel. Most APS systems aren't that heavy they just take up space. Your talking at most a half ton tops for a complete hard kill APS systems. Soft kill systems are even lighter. The Composite Metal Foam is three times lighter than current RHA armors. To put that into perspective RHA in a 3 foot by 3 foot by 2 inch plate is over 750 lbs. The same plate in CFM is about 250lbs. A solid block of the material in roughly the same dimensional sized box as the Abrams actually weighs less than the current gen Abrams by at least ten tons.

All tanks are logistically taxing. It is kind of hard to justify replacing the Honeywell in general because it generates a lot of power for its size and can burn a wide range of fuels including diesel. Diesel engines would be easier on the maintainers in general but it would still require a fairly heavy logistical foot print. Tanks just eat up a shit ton of logistics.

edited 14th Jun '18 8:27:36 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Meanwhile, in Chile◊

That Composite Metal Foam seems really interesting.

edited 14th Jun '18 9:04:54 PM by AngelusNox

Yeah, I'm not too sure about the Abrams suffering from "crippling overspecialization". Its only real shortcoming is the gas turbine engine and the range/logistics issues associated with it. Then again, the gas turbine engine is also one of its big advantages. Either way, it remains one of the world's most effective tanks, if not the most effective.

For whatever replaces it, I think 60 tons is probably gonna be the target weight. Electronics and equipment get heavy, as we've found. Trophy weighs almost two tons by itself. If you want to have all of the high-end bells and whistles you need to commit to a heavier vehicle.

An electronic warfare suite is nice, but I don't think we really need one of those on our tank. It's just not the way we employ that kind of thing. What we really should be looking into is anti-drone countermeasures. APS is a must, though it's a bit of a given as we're already seeing it on the Abrams. Depending on the design of the tank I could see going either manned or unmanned for the turret, but I think the crew should be kept at 4.

edited 15th Jun '18 7:36:28 AM by archonspeaks

I didn't see anything for an EW suite but it is a big load of sensors for general detection and integration into the networks some of which are upgrades to existing systems. A chunk of the sensor suite is for APS. Digging around Trophy's actual weight is 1,800lbs. Still lighter than slat armor or even thicker armor layers.

In terms of a new tank I am fairly certain they want lighter than 60 tons or more. Part of that is heavy investment in armor research, lighter systems, replacing as much cabling as possible where feasible, and even looking to using a lighter weight 120mm gun. Part of that will quite likely mean reduced crew to reduce the internal volume. The US did a series of studies and found they can get along fine with a 3 man crew. However anything below that and it gets to be an issue given current technology. Eliminating a crew member offers far more benefits in overall volume reduction which in turn makes it easier to armor the vehicle for less weight cost than be offered by just having a 4th man hang around. The US can and has designed a number of working auto-loaders for a variety of calibers which operate as fast if not faster than a human loader and do it far more consistently. Which is partly why using unmanned turrets is a desirable option. You can make the turret a lot smaller without having to account for space for a crewman outside of maintenance and emergency access.

Honestly, a newer turbine would probably do at least as much for fuel economy as switching to a conventional diesel - I have been led to understand that they've come quite some ways in terms of fuel economy.

That is a possibility as well. Build a new ground vehicle turbine and see if you can shift over more mileage and performance. A benefit of a lighter tank is the same engine gives you a bit more oomph for the weight its attached to and it won't suck fuel down so heavily.

As far as I am concerned turbines also can be used to generate a shitload of electricity much more smoothly than a piston engine could.

That may be one of the reasons they are keeping turbines. There are some sort of plans for high energy equipment for Abrams or future vehicles which means they will need the power generation to support it.

^ That sounds like a job for a nuclear powered tank.

You say C&C Generals, but what we're looking at is a bit more GDI than PRC. Coilguns and all that shit.

You're not going to get the power levels needed for GDI tech off a gas turbine engine. At least a gas turbine engine and a tank not the size of a battleship.

WHY NOT?

Because there are literally a thousand-plus other artists and bands that are much much better?

I mean, if we're trying to commit war crimes against our own troops by all means play Taylor Swift tracks on patrol.

Personally I'd say screw the butt rock outside of brass-mandated public displays and demonstrations. Instead play a medley of stuff from Garth Brooks to Lynyrd Skynyrd to Tupac Shakur and more.

But for the love of God stay away from Taylor Swift and the Spice Girls.

"Tell me what you want" is actually a pretty neat tune for a formation of Abrams tanks to blast out loud since the melody is extremely fast-paced and aggressive while the lyrics make for hilarious Soundtrack Dissonance.

Blast a hole through the wall with HE shells:

HEEEEEEEEY YAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

You pick Out Kast and leave out B.O.B. For shame.

Posting Outkast and y'all forget this one? Absolute shame.

Lol.

For your consideration:

USMC transplanting parts from old HUMVVEE's to the new JLTV especially the armored turret units

So what you're saying is....Marines are packrats.

Yep. Never denying that one. Especially the reserve units. That and it is smart to not make a whole new line of turrets if you can just keep using your current stock.

“Marines make do”, I recall.

The Israeli's are claiming to have the first tank design with an AI assistant and will enter trails in 2020. The tank is claimed to be aiming for a bunch of sensor systems and from the sounds of it, that is what the AI will assist in managing. They will also be leveraging VR training and "Iron Vision" see-through system. There may be more upgrades in the Mk 4 Merkava but we will likely have to wait to see what they actually roll out for trials. It is also just as likely that we won't see some of the systems mentioned but we won't actually know till it hits.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Jul 30th 2018 at 6:47:01 AM

"Alexa, play some Butt Rock."