Hong Kong discussion

Here's the thing: whether you like it or not power always rests on the people. All leaders get their power from the people regardless.

Because people who are supposedly in power are always fewer than those they have power over. If those who have no power one day decides they don't want their leader, there's very little the leader can do about it. There is no way that one or a few people can fight against millions. That's the way it is. It has repeated itself time and time again through out the Chinese history. Push the people too hard and they revolt. Even one of the Chinese emperors, back when emperors have the power over life and death itself, knew this, and was particularly careful in using his power.

Those who see are against the Hong Kong protest, do you know what the solution is? A democratic process. Because what that does is that it recognizes the above fact and turn it into a formalized process where people no longer need to rise up in arms to overthrow their government. Don't like your leader? Vote them out in the next election. This is the reason why even now in Australia when the government is at the least popular there's no similar protests here. The worse thing to happen is that we have to wait for the next election: as bad as that is there's an election to look forward to. The people in Hong Kong? When CY Leung mismanages there's no legitimate way for them to take him down. So what happens? What is happening right now. Because they cannot vote him out. People don't like to protest. They don't like to sleep in the streets. When they do that there must be a good reason.

A proper democratic system exists so that this kind of mass protests is less likely to happen. And when protests do happen, often something went wrong with that democratic system or that the leader is so bad that people cannot wait to vote them out.

I'd wagger it's a troll, you'd be hard-pressed to make that post sound more conformist.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!

If it's just for trolling, that's year-long trolling then. Similar posts with the "general starting point" from Culminus have been made in various other threads in the past, like the Asian Maritime Disputes thread, East Asian Politics thread, and South Asian Politics thread (where Tibet and India-China relations get discussed too).

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.

Nah. I'd suspect he's doing for PRC government what such eminent personages like George Bernard Shaw, H. G. Wells, and Walter Duranty once did for the Soviet Union.

That, or he's an actual Chinese citizen loyal to the Communist Party.

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.

Let's not turn this into a debate on a person.

Anyhoo, news from Hong Kong.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

The CEO insists that the demands are hard to meet.

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Pro-China protestors made attacks on pro-democracy protestors by tearing their barricades.

Word out there is some are disaffected civilians (small store owners, public service workers), but others have suspicions on triads.

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Associated Press reports arrests made for pro-protestor supporters from sending solidarity messages to posting pics online. Wang Zang was among those arrested by Public Security Police. 60 more people are called in after 37 are arrested by PSP.

edited 13th Oct '14 4:44:20 AM by Ominae

I'm calling bull on CY Leung.

At the very least he can step down.

@Entropy 13: I believe Achmaenid was being sarcastic. AFAIK Shinra's beliefs are sincere. I happen to disagree with most of them but that's beside the point.

Trump delenda est

I don't think Entropy was responding to Achmaenid's joke about Shinra.

X3 I can testify to that. I've seen what you charge, it's nowhere near "flexible", try "extortionate".

edited 13th Oct '14 2:48:56 PM by SilasW

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

<wanders in, realizes he's being talked about>

The hell?

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14042161690A17849500&page=12#299

With love.

edited 13th Oct '14 2:38:19 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

*shakes fist*

I may contract for them once in awhile, but I am no KGB stooge. My loyalties are flexible. My fees are not.

EDIT-

More seriously, just cuz I go against the forum grain sometimes doesn't mean my beliefs are all that different, if you look at the Arab Spring threads et al.

edited 13th Oct '14 2:46:45 PM by FFShinra

Back on topic: triads join in the party, for both sides.

Nyet. Gulag with you. FF Shinra: OTC Solzhenitsyn.

How significant a force are the triads these days anyway? Assorted Jackie Chan films would lead me to believe they run the whole city, or are they more like the Mafia of The Sopranos.

edited 13th Oct '14 2:52:16 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

Glad to see their bipartisan.

edited 13th Oct '14 3:49:29 PM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.

From personal experience while I was in Hong Kong it depends on location: on the Hong Kong Island itself you don't hear much about them but Mong Kok is close to where their activity is the highest.

Edit: Conflict between road-users and protesters increases. Looks like the end-game is fast approaching.

At least the HK government is sensible enough to do the waiting and let citizens do their job for them.

edited 13th Oct '14 7:10:12 PM by IraTheSquire

We stayed one night in Mong Kok last year. Why the "clubs" there are advertising Japanese gravure and JAV idols, I will never know.

Anyway, it was a memorable night for the wrong reasons. The room was too expensive and too small. We had dinner in a Yoshinoya nearby there LOL. My sister woke up the earliest among us, she said she was probably able to roam almost the whole area lol. And if memory serves me right, the street along the small "inn" we stayed in briefly was Shanghai St. If not, then at least it's the street where most of the shops are selling shower fixtures, faucets, lamps, etc.

After that, we left for Tin Hao in Hong Kong island. Much better place, nearby bus stop, nearby MTR station, the tram is nearby too...

I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think. Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.

http://m.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1612377/officer-quitting-join-occupy-rallies-boosts-auxiliary-police-morale

An officer from the auxiliary police force resigned to join with the protests.

There seems to be an article in the net about Jackie Chan being against the protests due to high economic costs.

Well, funny thing about Hong Kong is that there's a large element of Japanese influence in the culture. There are large stores own by Japanese (Sogo is a famous landmark in Causeway Bay) and Japanese anime is huge, possibly because Japan is the only big Asian media outlet (Taiwan and Korea are smaller but catching up when I left, and PRC is... well, PRC). For a place that keeps reminding people the darkest "3 years and 9 months" of Japanese occupation you can get manga from newspaper stall on the side of the road, for cheap.

On topic: HK police with chainsaws.

Letting you folks know that Imma be in Hong Kong for a couple of days. Folks are aware of the protests and as such, we'll try to be careful of where we walk to.

edited 13th Oct '14 10:16:56 PM by Ominae

Good luck and have fun! Keep us posted so that we can keep an eye on this (and so that the PRC doesn't send in the TANKS).

Edit: No, really. The end-game is here.

edited 13th Oct '14 11:27:43 PM by IraTheSquire

@Onimae

Jackie Chan has said plenty of pro-PRC nonsense in the past.

—

If the HK protesters want to wind Beijing up, build a Goddess of Democracy. That'll really irritate them.

edited 13th Oct '14 11:39:59 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

Looks like PTU did their job to clear out some of the barricades. Will post if protests are gonna make my folks have a hard time moving around.

As far as I know, the Hong Kong garrison had beefed up security around the perimeter and stocked up on anti-riot weapons and equipment in case the protests would target them.

This is an account from the locals courtesy of Jane's Defense

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Got reports from TV that PTU used tear gas and pepper spray when they faced off against protestors I the in-road tunnels. They're still taking out barricades in I think Admiralty.

Saw a Caucasian HKPF officer (most likely leading the operation) on the scene. I ain't surprised some of them chose to stay and play a role in the force.

edited 14th Oct '14 7:19:03 PM by Ominae

Regarding the foreign police officer, Caucasian members would certainly be useful for sorting out issues involving Hong Kong's bustling foreign residents and visitors. However, even here in the US, it's virtually unheard of to officially hire foreigners into the police forces - I assume that the white (and suspectedly British) officer would have had to have a right to abode in Hong Kong in order to keep his job.