East Asia News & Politics Thread: China, South Korea, Japan...

I think you're underestimating the rest of East Asia both in terms of their power and their hostility towards China (and each other).

The hostility towards each other part is something that has historically and presently works to the benefit of China; unlike in the pre-EU Europe where there's was a huge number of polities on roughly equal footing when it comes to their fundamentals (meaning nobody could stay on top for long), China is and has pretty much always been head and shoulders above the rest of east Asia when it comes to the raw potential that comes from its geography, natural resources, and enormous population. Unlike in the Western hemisphere where not even the combined efforts of every other country in the region could stand up to the United States, China has a lot more competition, but there's also a lot more hostility between other countries in East Asia compared to Latin America, making a united front essentially impossible without China doing something absolutely outrageous beyond the usual posturing and saber rattling that major powers tend to engage in.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Nov 2nd 2018 at 2:01:09 PM

Except China has also repeatedly shot itself in the foot throughout its history. Multiple violent uprisings, civil wars, etc. have left their mark.

Edited by M84 on Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:03:26 AM

Yes, but in periods where China didn't shoot itself in the foot it achieved varying degrees of regional hegemony, and after more than 20 years of forecasts of imminent doom I think its finally time to put the China collapse theory to rest, at least for the foreseeable future.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Nov 2nd 2018 at 2:07:41 PM

If anything, the current attempts to expand its power throughout the world may end up hastening such a collapse. It's certainly pissing off other countries in the world.

Not helped by the fact that the people China actually sends to other countries where they set up shop have quickly made asses of themselves. Especially in countries with black people such as the Republic of Kenya. Calling people monkeys to their faces...<facepalm>

Edited by M84 on Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:12:13 AM

Thing is that even ancient China also "overstepped" even when the other Asian countries were willfully paying tribute and adapting Chinese culture and customs.

The turning point was the often overlooked Sui Dynasty, which reunified China after yet another civil war and marked a high point in ancient China's influence in foreign policy. The early Sui emperors oversaw a liberalized economy when traveling abroad was encouraged and much funding was diverted from military to economic spending, resulting in a period where Vietnam, Korea, and Japan all maintained good relations with China as a business and geopolitical partner.

The late Sui emperors were a different bunch however. They essentially became unsatisfied with spreading China's influence through mainly soft power, and became increasingly unnerved at how uppity the once docile tribute kingdoms were becoming as they became increasingly inspired by China's example to be a regional heavyweight and sought to see themselves as equals to China instead of inferiors.

Seeing threats in every direction, the late Sui emperors then threw their nation's resources into one costly war after another. The first one to do so severed ties with Japan because the Japanese emperor had the nerve to end a letter with the phrase 'May one Son of Heaven (the Chinese phrase for 'emperor that also serves as a claim to divine right over humanity) wish another well', promptly beginning a series of failed invasions of Korea ostensibly with the goal of using the peninsula as a stepping stone to Japan. During these wars, Japan even sent fleets and troops to aid the Koreans whenever the Sui seemed to get too successful.

Eventually, the other Asian countries grew so disgusted with Sui China's sense of entitlement that they re-influenced the Chinese customs that they adopted into ones with unique local twists.

Edited by FluffyMcChicken on Nov 2nd 2018 at 11:24:09 AM

Yes, the rest of East Asia has learned that even if you do play nice with China in the sandbox, China is still likely to kick in your sandcastle. And considering Xi Jinping is the kind of immature asshole who bans a cartoon character because comparisons to it hurt his ego...

Edited by M84 on Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:19:45 AM

And in the fullness of time a China that has become a regional hegemon would end up fumbling for one reason or the other; history never ends after all, but I don't really buy claims that's something imminent. Meanwhile, in what I regard as the single most important dimension of a countries capabilities, namely science and technology, China has been shooting up the relevant charts recently in terms of both academic contributions, innovation, and R&D.

@M84 That's a consequence of a country with little to no experience in power projection or cultivating soft-power clumsily attempting to relearn those vital parts of statecraft. My own expectation is that China will gradually get better at those things rather than remaining thoroughly mediocre, in the same way China is now moving up the value chain and transitioning from a developing to a (lower end) developed country, much like Japan and the other "Asian Tiger" economies did in the 20th century.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Nov 2nd 2018 at 2:32:41 PM

The last time that the Chinese state operated a working vassalage network was the Qing dynasty, it looks like. Korea fell to the Japanese, Mongolia never came under Han Chinese domination to begin with, Tibet and Xinjiang/Uyghuristan are still brimming with unrest, Vietnam knew better than to trust the People's Republic and the only sattelite states the CCP could effectively control, Cambodia and Laos, have limited utility other than sabotaging ASEAN resolutions. And maybe North Korea, though the Kims are playing off everyone else as much as they're getting played. Now, Myanmar is shaping up to be their major playing piece, an ASEAN member state that's big enough for the others to actually care about.

There's also an open and extensive Chinese influence campaign in Australian politics - pretty much everyone in the Federal government has been caught taking Chinese money at one point or another.

According to info I got from South Korea, the JSA is now demined, armed soldiers from both Koreas are being withdrawn with unarmed guards in place.

The MDL will also be not restricted to tourists in the long run. UN Command has assisted both sides in the process.

https://www.vancouver.ca.emb-japan.go.jp/itpr_en/00_000930.html

This thing has become the rage in South Korean news regarding Nippon Steel paying compensation based from damages in WWII. Japan doesn't like it and is thinking of sanctions/other means of retalations.

Never mind that there is Japanese investment there.

PS - I saw a Prius hybrid in Seoul being used as a taxi.

Edited by Ominae on Nov 5th 2018 at 6:06:45 AM

Seikanron, Meme Remix: BTS T-shirt: Japanese TV show cancels BTS appearance over atomic bomb shirt

This, here. This is the kind of thing that people write as a parody of East Asian politics.

I haven't really followed the K-Pop scene since BTS made their debut way back, but I went to my first K-Pop concert in Japan, so this is several different layers of vexing to me.

That is both petty and a /r/polandball comic waiting to be drawn.

East Asia is gonna East Asia.

You know it.

I especially feel for the artists in both countries in all this: their attempts to get improved employment rights is going to get stalled because of this. Again.

C Onsidering how much east asia is seeing as over polite and courterous, it seen in politics east asia pretty much shoot the concept in the head, isnt?.

Passive-Aggression can still involve a lot of hatred.

Then East asia surely have A LOT OF pen up issues, isnt?.

Yes

The problem is that East Asia has never really even tried to work out their issues. Contrast with Europe, who are similarly fucked up but have at least tried to cope via things like the EU (your mileage may vary of course on how well it's doing that but at least they are trying).

So I've been practicing my writing on political stuff in Asia in my own site (hopefully someone can notice it in the long run) and some of my musing related to Japan has gotten one view so far since I started to do a slight writeup on Princess Ayako giving up her Imperial privileges.

There's a reason S.P. Huntington said that Asia's Past is going to be Asia's Future, whereas Europe's Future is going to be radically different from Europe's Past.

No Asian state, Eastern or Southern, is ever going to resolve those foreign slapfights, because it gives their populace something to fixate on instead of their internal problems - which are immense in comparison.

lmao the guy who put Kazakhstan under "Orthodox Civilization" had something to say about Asian history

Finally wrote a post about the Imperial line of succession, although it's on my personal web site where I talk about issues in the Asia-Pacific region.

I don't expect to get lot of hits, but I hope people will think about the issues I mention.

Can you provide a link, please?

Sure.

Putting a disclaimer that it's me exploring topics from Japan (for now) from my perspective since many moons ago that I learned Japanese politics and stuff ('twas fun back in my day) from my alma matter.

https://shiraberublog.wordpress.com/

Post title is "The issue on continuing the Imperial Family lineage". Although I do have other posts regarding the Imperial Household Law just for reference.

And I'm still practicing on my writing creds.

Edited by Ominae on Nov 11th 2018 at 9:23:29 AM