John Oliver's Last Week Tonight

I can understand that the prisons are feeding and otherwise providing certain things for the prisoners, and it would be odd if prisoners leave prison far more wealthy than when they arrived (if rent and food is non-existent minimum wage at full time is actually quite a lot of money) but 2 cents an hour is ridiculous. And of course the prisoner bull fighting is downright sadistic. It reminds me of the Star Trek episode "Bread and Circuses," which said that the brutal gladiator games of Rome would have been on television.

But compelled labor is a slightly more complicated story. As Oliver pointed out, it's written into the amendment that slavery is abolished except as the punishment for a crime. The purpose of prisons is either to sequester individuals who have proven themselves dangerous in open society or as a punishment to a crime where the individual has to provide a certain amount of retribution to society, hence the whole picking up litter on the side of the highway. If it's just hanging out in your cell for a couple years there is no point to it. From that point of view, paying them at all is being generous.

A lot of it is just a general need for prison reform. Anything that is For Profit when it comes to a customer base that is literally stripped of their rights feels immoral. Skype calls have near zero overhead costs.

Well, one of my teachers DID say that America is the true inheritor of the Anglo-Saxon spirit.

Optimism is a duty.

Having prisoners repay their debt to society sounds like a fine idea in theory, but in practice it gets bad very fast. Even ignoring the very obvious racial biases of the justice system, lots of minor crimes are disproportionately punished with jail time (such as drug offenses) in order to get more prison labor. Any system that relies on an exploited labor class has serious moral issues.

There's also the economic issues as well. Slave labor is cheap as dirt, which stifles innovation. Why bother spending time and money inventing labor-saving techniques and machines when labor is so damn cheap? This was a large part of the South's problem around the time of the Civil War, and we're seeing similar problems now with migrant labor, prison labor, and sending jobs overseas.

People should not be getting rich off of prisoner employment. Private industry should not be involved there, or at least should pay reasonable wages (like 3-4 dollars an hour vs 2-16 cents) since prisoner families often need help too. But retribution work should directly improve the community, trash pickup, firefighting, stamping license plates, etc. Things like that help actually reform criminals too.

I don't think we should force prisoners to become firefighters. The job is dangerous enough as it is without forcing unskilled people into it. Prisoners should be able to volunteer for it, that leads to much better motivation.

Optimism is a duty.

True, obviously there are also going to be restrictions on the type of job according to physical and mental ability. I'll admit I didn't know about the prisoner firefighters until this piece. It is odd that they are doing a job we equate with the title of "hero."

Oliver didn't go into it in the show, but the "prisoners as firefighters" thing is a bit more complicated — first of all, they are all volunteers, so they aren't being forced to be firefighters. Second of all, they do have to be trained (although it's much faster training than actual firefighters go through) and during fire season, they actually live outside of the prison, in a nicer area and are given better food, which is a good incentive to volunteer. However, it is also very dangerous. And the reason it happened in the first place, really, is because there was a dearth of firefighters in the '70s, so the state had to ask prisoners to do it.

Here is an article that explains things a bit better.

Edited by alliterator on Aug 6th 2019 at 7:33:35 AM

As John pointed out, prisoners don't mind working for the most part. Even when you're washing cars or cleaning up roads, it's better than staring at a wall.

It's the fact that people are profiting off it massively and want to keep them as cheap labor.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 6th 2019 at 6:44:34 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

City beautification, I think, is the best use of prisoner labor. It's simple and safe, as well as genuinely needed, but also doesn't profit anyone directly. Prisoners cleaning up roads are not stealing jobs from anyone else, or saving any giant corporation money.

The city still profits, why hire street cleaners when you can arrest a bunch of people for loitering and then have them sweep the streets?

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

It reaches into the issue that society is due some repayment for the crimes of individuals against it.

I don't have much issue with the government imposing penalties on criminals including labor.

It's only when for-profit motives enter the equation of prisons that I have issues.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Oliver even said it's hard to feel sympathy for convicts, but it's a potential source of cheap labor and that always leads to other problems.

There's always possible problems but the mass number of problems come from racism and corporatization.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

I'm not talking about taking out trash or driving the big street sweepers, I'm talking about picking up litter on the freeway and helping plant trees. The low-level stuff that is either done by unpaid volunteers (with paid city employees supervising) or not done at all.

Pretty much any charity work or community service could be argued as taking away legitimate jobs. That is one of the big conundrums of charities, if people are always willing to work why are there some jobs people don't want?

Now disaster response and relief would definitely be high priority for prisoner work.

I will said part of is a problem with american culture, there is a sense of "freedom is for those who deserve it" and that pain and disconfort produce for prision is a good payment to sociaty.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Yes, that's the dark side to the American Dream. If you don't succeed, it must be your fault.

Optimism is a duty.

Turkmenistan's (living) dictator/Caligula whose name I keep pronouncing as "Bernie Madoff". Also very obsessed with Guinness World Records, including largest cake. Which, naturally, John did with HBO money.

Edited by terumokou on Aug 12th 2019 at 12:33:00 PM

Burning love!

"I'll burst out of suits like I'm Meghan Markle. What?

How did this dork ever get to be dictator? Putin, he isn't.

John admitted to fancying horses this episode. Yeah, that gag won't follow him at all.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 12th 2019 at 11:09:19 AM

Optimism is a duty.

Apparently he used to be a dentist turned Minister of Health turned VP of (dead by 2006) President for life Saparmurat Niyazov. Who then overthrew Niyazov's cult of personality and establish his own.

Also totalitarianism.

Burning love!

Never trust a dentist.

Disgusted, but not surprised

Well, not with something other than your teeth at least.

Unless, they're Nightbrace. You really shouldn't trust him.

Edited by windleopard on Aug 12th 2019 at 2:30:02 AM

Was that cake real? Because that chunk he tore out seemed oddly sturdy for an edible cake.

Optimism is a duty.

A fun piece overall, but it's almost entirely about making fun of his eccentricities, propaganda pieces and Guinness World Records rather than the human rights issues with the country. I also remember learning separately the barbell clear was literally a promotional video for them hosting the world weightlifting championships, which is more legitimate than practicing bicycle mounted drive-bys or doing donuts next to a lava pit.

Guinness World Records is currently being flooded with angry tweets about them enabling totalitarian governments, and they made a defensive rebuttal post on their website which is hilarious in its own way.

So? We don't need yet another mini-documentary on the atrocities he's committed. It's far more effective to satirize his absurd PR efforts, because they are what make him both unique and ridiculous.

Frankly, if I had to wager on the topic, I'd say that the takedown of GWR is actually the main objective of this piece. People are brutalizing it like it's a citizen of Turkmenistan.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 12th 2019 at 6:47:04 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"