Incredibles 2

Ahem

EDIT: Believe it or not the commentary is even funnier

edited 18th Mar '14 10:10:21 PM by Mattonymy

So, I haven't read most of this thread (sorry. Lazy.), but I thought I'd post my thoughts I said to a friend on Tumblr when I heard about this and we were discussing the themes of Inredibles and why its so great.

AS LONG AS INCREDIBLES 2 CAN CONTINUE THE THEMES IN A SMART WAY!

PIXAR ISN’T BAD WITH SEQUELS, BUT THEY HAVE A NOT-SO-GOOD-TRACK-RECORD WITH MOST OF THEM.

Like Cars 2 and its spin-offs.

Though Cars wasn’t a bad movie, it was the lowest of their movies before Cars 2 came a long. Cars was about not striving for goal after goal and stopping to smell the roses. However, the opposite is true is that its also about not smelling so many roses that you never achieve your goals, as shown with Sally and most of the town.

Cars 2 had… virtually nothing to do with any of this at all… to say the very least. And I won’t even touch the Spin-Off Series.

Toy Story did the opposite and actually continued its themes. The first one toyed (if you’ll excuse the pun) with the basic concept of toys that live when you aren’t looking.

Toy Story 2 then drove the question about abandonment into the themes and played with that idea, both in one extreme and the other, as shown with Jessie and Stinky Pete.

Toy Story 3 then added the grim reality of adulthood and moving on from relationships, which is a very real thing and also, probably, Pixar’s greatest triumph in terms of writing.

What they need to do is make sure the themes extend from the concepts and questions of the first film. The first Incredibles is driven by the question of “What is a Hero?” and how that relates between saving the world and every day life, such as family and office work.

I think the sequel needs to see the kids taking on the mantel in the place of their parents, who are too old to be doing the hero business. Violet, Dash, and Jack-Jack are all very different characters and, as they mature, I’m sure they’d have very different ideas of not only what a hero is, but how to go about being the hero. Or maybe one of the driving questions is weather being the hero is who you’re meant to be or if being the hero who fights vs. the hero who pulls strings is the same thing?

I want to see an adult Violet, a fresh-out-of-high-school Dash, and a teenage Jack-Jack (maybe nerdy guy who developed more into brain/mental powers?) who try to work as a team, but the way they balance their real lives and go about being a hero is where they find conflict.

I would like to see, maybe Violet not wanting to be a ‘Super’ and wanting a more normal life or wanting to do things that just don’t involve being a Super, not out of self-loathing or something, but simply that’s what she finds herself interested.

While Dash wants desperately to be this Tony Stark-gets-every-woman-he-meets kind of Super and either doesn’t find it appealing or fulfilling or quite simply it causes stress and unneeded drama.

Meanwhile, Jack-Jack (J.J.?) is dealing with the drama between his older siblings and the stresses of puberty, not in an overexagerated way, but in the sense that he’s not sure who he is yet, maybe toying with the fact that his powers haven’t settled and are inconsistent which leads to endangering people around him?

Actually, this isn’t bad so far.

On a small note, I would like to finally see a gay Disney character here, since there’s a lot more likely possibility of it happening with Increds. than The Good Dino or Finding Dory, and I feel I can trust Pixar to handle it properly. Maybe J.J. is exploring sexuality or Violet has a female partner?

Violet was attracted to Tony, though. Insert "okay then how 'bout bi" response here.

We had a speculation thread for Incredibles 2.

As I said there, what I would expect in a good sequel would be to begin with the family falling apart due to growing up and moving on. Violet's getting married (Tony will do, but he's a symbol, not a character), Dash is about to leave for college, and Jack(-Jack) is in the brooding "I'm locking myself in my room because you all embarrass me" stage of teenagerhood.

Time has advanced and now the world has evolved into a more 80s design aesthetic. It's a Silver Age of superheroing. We've already gone through most of the reintegration of having Supers again, but there's still a little resentment on both sides.

An old flame of Helen's is the PR spokesman for "it's good to have Supers protecting the world". However, he's secretly plotting a superhuman revolution where Supers not only protect the normals, but rule them "for their own good". Helen finds him seductive on multiple levels, but in the end the family has to re-bond while fighting for the agency of normals.

I think that would be a good sequel. Brad Bird can do better.

My father pointed out that Dash in particular would be fundamentally uprooted by getting any older than he is in the first film. He's a hyperactive little boy, and growing up will change his personality a lot. My father says he'd be interested in a story even further on, where Bob has to deal with retirement while Violet and Dash are just beginning their adult careers as heroes.

edited 19th Mar '14 12:32:40 AM by TParadox

Maybe Super!Babies are always changing powers, while Super!Children/Teens' powers change a lot less until their persionality settles. Though, I feel that might be awkward since his name fits the power and its also key to his character.

Having Hellen seduced by an old flame feels like a rehash of the first plot. Where, instead of an old flame, it was nostalgia of a different time that seduced Bob.

I think, like what TS 3 did, it needs to focus on the kids (who had a lot less characterization than the parents) and leave the parents as more side characters on this one. I feel like their characters were fully explorerd.

And, your ride, Violet did have that thing with the non-character. Though, Bi-erause is a thing, if Pixar were to do a gay-subplot, let's take baby steps and keep it simple.

I suppose, if Dash were to get this Tony Stark plot-line, then Jack Jack would logically get the sexuality one, which could easily fit his character arc of finding out what kind of person you are and general teenage development.

I suppose another question is who should the villain be, or should the film even have a villain?

I'm not sure if it will happen, but if is does...well, then I agree, they should focus on the kids this time around. Especially on Violet. She was easily the most interesting character in the first movie, after Helen (despite the fact that it was mostly Bob's movie).

It's a Superhero movie...you need a villain in a proper one.

edited 19th Mar '14 3:25:31 AM by Swanpride

The triumph of the first movie, and what sets it apart from anything comparable, is that the Parrs are a family of people with superpowers, as opposed to superheroes who are related. The difference is subtle but very important, and if Pixar maintains it, the sequel has a chance of being worthy.

Yikes so many new posts since I last visited!!

In regards to Page 2, no matter what themes were playing in the movie, it is STILL A SUPERHERO MOVIE! Superhero movies always have unexpected themes running underneath all the action! To say it isn't a superhero movie is being foolish!

If sequels are SOOOO risky, how come Hollywood keeps making them?? If anything, making something ORIGINAL these days is more risky!

edited 19th Mar '14 7:17:59 AM by kyun

I wonder if the movie will involve puberty. That's a classic theme. They wouldn't even need any action or villains.

edited 19th Mar '14 7:48:52 AM by CassidyTheDevil

I think the point of the poster was that the main theme of the movie are actually midlife crisis, family vs. career, the lost glory days aso. Those are themes which everyone can relate to - it's actually a very usual story, told with unusual characters. And those are not the themes which are normally tackled in a superhero movie, which tend to be about being "super", about the responsibilities of a hero aso.

I agree that a sequel should also tackle a more "normal" theme.

that reminded me of one of the lawsuits that Mr. Incredible got hit with: the victims of that train accident suing Mr. Incredible convinced me that he lives in the Marvel Universe. seriously, if Mr. I hadn't stopped the train, would these people be there to sue him? no, they'd be killed! where's the gratitude?

The Incredibles Will Get a Marvel Comic Book Series.

Because that just makes too much sense.

In the past, BOOM Studios made some Incredibles comics.

...I'm going to withhold my excitement until I hear this confirmed from more sources. After all I would expect it to resonate across the media more. That said, I think a lot of people agree that if Pixar is going to continue doing sequels, Incredibles 2 is a no-brainer, especially with Bird along.

As for what it should be about, I do believe it should continue the themes from the first about their being a family but being Supers gets in the way; maybe taking place a few years later so Jack-Jack is a pre-Teen, Dash is a Teenager and Violet in her late teens. All dealing with new problems. Also, I REALLY would like to know what happened with all the villains? This is a question the first movie never addressed well; presumably they all were eventually arrested, resulting in superheroes now being seen as unnecessary Destructive Saviors. The sequel could have a prison breakout, resulting in a lot of new villains (possibly straining the Incredibles to deal with them, since most other heroes were killed off in the first film.)

@Swanpride: I agree, a standard theme told in an unusual way is usually better than a more esoteric theme. What it is about should always be an easier question to answer than what happens. FLCL is a good example of this, it would take longer for me to explain what happens than it would to just watch it. On the other hand I can explain what it is about in two words: Growing up.

@Kyun: My point was that it was less a "superhero movie" with all that implies and more of a traditional movie that just happens to involve superheroes. It's really only a superhero movie in the same way that Watchmen is a superhero comic: Sure, it has superheroes, and it deals with some familiar superhero tropes, but those aspects are not what are in the foreground. (Well, okay, that might not be true for Watchmen, since I haven't read it yet, but it certainly applies to The Incredibles.

edited 19th Mar '14 10:52:39 AM by Odd1

Cautious optimism, gentlemen.

You know, I've been thinking during this whole slew of Pixar sequels, "Who gives a damn about Monsters University? All we want is Incredibles 2"

Honestly, I'm not even ready to really believe that it will happen...I wouldn't put it past Pixar to announce all those sequels while in truth working on some really creative idea their rivals are not supposed to know about.

I think Monsters University was the end of the initial spate of sequels that seem to have been greenlit before the ink was dry on the Disney-Pixar acquisition. They said that after Monsters University the plan was to cool down to one sequel every other year and one original every year.

Do you realize that the last original Pixar film before Brave was Up? It seems like Up came out ages ago. Since Up they've done three sequels and one original.

I wish Disney hadn't closed down Pixar Canada before they'd gotten to do anything. It just makes sense to have a satellite studio for making derivatives (sequels, TV specials, spinoff shorts) and incubating new talent while the experienced storytellers work on new ideas.

edited 19th Mar '14 12:39:23 PM by TParadox

Pixar Canada did animation for the Toy Story Toons shorts that came out ahead of their movie releases. Too bad. I would've liked to see what they would've done with a full movie!

Personally, I've always thought a Monster's Inc. TV series would've worked incredibly well. Would've been like a typical Work Com, except in the Monster World!! Could've haad some interesting, creative things done with it.

I seen critics and other people compare Monsters Inc to The Simpsons, saying its script was the most identical to that show. I agree! It certainly felt a tiny bit more adult than Pixar's previous films at the time.

And then came The Incredibles...

And thus, I was ne-ver the same a-gain.

Pixar's previous films at the time were two Toy Storys and A Bug's Life.