War in Ukraine

That drone's eye view of the airport was sad, esp. all the artillery damage. Were those cars still parked in the lot?

To be honest I'm amazed that much of the airport is even left. Given all the artillery and airstrikes going around, I would've figured that only the main terminal or whatever was reinforced should be left standing. Yet most of the large structures are still holding... albeit totally pockmarked with holes and burns.

As it's been a year since everything began, I'm going to put this video in commemoration. How Maydan changed throughout the autumn, winter, spring and summer.

Аlso, today is coincidentally the day of Remembrance of Holodomor.

Aims of the coalition:

- shedding Ukraine's neutral/independent-from-geopolitical-blocks status, entry into NATO. - long-term - membership in the EU, short-term - completing the terms of the Association Agreement, including no-visa regime with the EU. - abolition of single-member district voting (to avoid voting corruption and bribing of electors, usage of open lists instead of closed ones - decommunisation, ban on Soviet propaganda - return of occupied territories - Donetsk, Luhansk, Crimea

Yesterday's remembrance on Maydan, featuring Poroshenko, Tymoshenko, Yatsenyuk, Turchynov, Joe Biden and others.

For some reason I love Turchynov's Cheka-style leather coats. Turchynov himself is very memetic on ukrnet, being affectionately nicknamed "The Bloody Pastor". This image is particularly popular for some reason.◊

edited 22nd Nov '14 1:39:08 AM by emuran

Various Russian spokespeople have been banging on about how the big bad 'ol West is hindering the MH 17 investigation and are using it as an excuse to slap sanctions on Russia according to the newspapers here. Well, considering that people here actually believe that crude forgery they put out, I'm really suspecting that all this is for Malaysian consumption.

The Ukrainian ambassador to Malaysia has urged for an end to spectulative reporting. KUALA LUMPUR: The media should wait for a full report from the Dutch-led team investigating on the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH 17 tragedy, instead of using unfounded speculation from “so-called sources“, said Ukrainian Ambassador to Malaysia, Ihor Humennyi.

From the newspaper that's bought the Russian state media claims wholesale, no less.

What's the popular opinion in Malaysia? More or less know what the Dutch and Australians are thinking about MH 17, but haven't heard about Malaysia

We have three main opinions so far, one being that the Russians/separatists did it, another being that the Ukrainians/"The West" did it as a false flag op, and the other being a "we must remain neutral" viewpoint that is very slightly slanted towards being pro-Russian.

The first and second views are roughly tied in popularity, with the second having decidedly more vocal supporters on Malaysian-majority forums and the like thanks to the Malaysian Siege Mentality. For whatever reason a good deal of Malaysians on the internet are massive fans of conspiracy theories, and fights between both factions are fairly common on social media nowadays.

Those of the first opinion are quoting the usual Reuters/CNN/Grauniad articles, as well as various press releases by Kiev. They usually draw from the same pool of articles like everyone else around the world - my referring to Bellingcat may be an anomaly.

Those of the second cite the lack of disclosure of ATC and radar logs and satellite imagery by Kiev, Amsterdam et al. as "proof" that "the West" has something up their sleeves. Global Research and random Youtube uploads see plenty of citing too, and not to mention that forged satellite image.

Those of the third opinion prefer to pray for the victims instead (seriously). While they do refer to the same sources as the first a good deal of the time, they do think that "the West" might be picking on the Russians for some reason. They seek justice for the victims and wish to bring the perpetrators to justice.

If there's something Malaysians have no shortage of, it's conflicting opinions.

There doesn't seem to be much by Singaporeans on the matter thanks to their non-involvement. Of course, I might be looking in all the wrong places. Perhaps Ominae could be of help here? Apologies for the late reply, the forum ate my post last night...

edited 23rd Nov '14 3:07:24 AM by Krieger22

While I understand that this may be outside your range of knowledge, what about opinions in the more Western-tied Singapore?

The aims of the coalition may do its job at thumbing their collective noses at Putin, but they're gonna lose more support in the Kiev-held south if they actually try that....

Someone called for me?

Yeah, would you happen to have any sources that could give an insight as to Singaporean public opinion on the MH17 downing?

Three more Ukrainian soldiers killed: Kiev military - (Reuters) - Three Ukrainian servicemen have been killed in the past 24 hours in fighting with pro-Russian separatists in the east despite a ceasefire in place since early September, a Ukrainian military spokesman said on Monday.

Was in a bookstore today, and there was a Malay book claiming that MH17 was done by... the Israelis. Y'know, I thought the Mossad was relentless, not stupid.

Blaming the Jews is always a popular one, I suppose.

From what I can scour around, most are sympathetic to the victims of MH 117.

They don't seem to hold any opinion on who's the culprit. They only expressed views to bring the culprit to justice.

Alright, thanks.

Superflankers in Crimea? Probably no. S-300s? Probably. I doubt the Russians would have any good excuse if anything got downed by a Grumble over eastern Ukraine...

Ukraine to hold referendum on joining Nato once certain conditions are met. Lithuania is also providing military assistance,though it is not clear if it will be lethal assistance.

Am guessing that Lithuania will provide supplies, maybe some weapons but no troops. They're not stupid enough to want to give Putin an excuse to invade. At least I hope they're not.

We're already on the verge of breaking our diplomatic relations with Russia, and the rhetoric of Dalia Grybauskaitė is probably the most agressive out of all the leaders of the EU. It's not like it can get much worse.

The Lithuanians will bring in more Ukrainian soldiers to train and rehabilitate. Everything else "depends on the needs of the Ukrainian side".

Russia has limited the number of Lithuanian cars that can pass through the border, verging on another diplomatic incident. Russia says it's due to the "vast amounts of European contraband passing through Kaliningrad".

edited 26th Nov '14 1:09:56 AM by emuran

Well if you interfere, you gotta expect consequences.

Lithuania's reaction? To escalate the rhetoric even more!

Volodymyr Groysman is the new speaker of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. Former Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Regional Development, Construction and Communal Living in the Yatsenyuk government. Became the mayor of Vinnytsia when he was 28 years old. Career opportunist, can't really say anything more about him. Former member of Yushchenko's "Nasha Ukraina", now a member of Petro Poroshenko's Bloc.

And thats the problem with everyone in the region, in terms of reaction.

Everyone makes connections to the Cold War or WWII with regards to this situation. They're both wrong. This is more like the events immediately preceding WWI than anything else.

Like WWI, you say? Ah yes, Russia sent "diplomats" to Ukraine first, it just so happens that they also bring "military supplies" with them.

Even after the assassination Austria-Hungary and Serbia still held talks (proper diplomatic talks, not merely "talking"). Right now all we're seeing are finger-pointing and presenting their actions differently.

edited 26th Nov '14 8:43:22 AM by entropy13

Great. Kolomoyskyy has just monopolized the airlines industry in Ukraine. So much for "let's end the state/oligarch monopoly!"

edited 26th Nov '14 8:58:34 AM by emuran

Strelkov spill in a Russian nationalist magazine interview

excerpt

But then help did arrive in the form of soldiers from the regular Russian army. Girkin and Prokhanov euphemistically call them otpuskniki (soldiers on leave), in reference to rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko’s admission on Russian state TV in late August that up to 4,000 Russian soldiers preferred to spend their leave fighting in Ukraine than “on the beach.” The Russian intervention halted the Ukrainian offensive and forced President Petro Poroshenko to agree to a ceasefire on Sept. 5.

We have known this for ages.

A detailed breakdown of the rebel forces would be good, if such a thing could be obtained. It would be nice to know how many are Russian soldiers, how many are ethnic Russian nationalists, and how many are genuine rebels.

Strelkov's an interesting guy - he also has the Repulika Srpska, Transnistria, and Chechnya on his resume.

Epic investigation of Reuters on Dmytro Firtash. Helps to explain how Ukrainian politics and economics worked under Yanukovych and what was Russia's role in it.

Reuters have been great actually.