Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

I disagree with this sentiment. If they don't at least try to save people in the Bad Future, then they become unsympathetic. It was explained better in Season 4, though, with the Framework — save the people in the Framework (even if they aren't real) and we also save ourselves. And they did end up saving all those people in the Bad Future before they prevented the Bad Future. (And, honestly, we have no idea exactly how time travel works in the MCU, so that Bad Future could still exist as an alternate timeline.)

Edited by alliterator on Dec 20th 2018 at 2:05:25 AM

It's not that the main characters shouldn't try. Of course they're going to try to save as many people in the future world as they can, it's been well-established at this point that that's who these characters are: they care. But it's not enough for them to care if it doesn't feel, to the audience, like it matters if and when they fail. By which I mean if the people they're trying to save start to feel like a plot device rather than characters in their own right.

Edited by Unsung on Dec 20th 2018 at 7:40:40 AM

But I actually cared for the people in this future...and since they introduced the notion of a multiverse early on, I never assumed that this reality would just vanish. Still don't. I am sure it is still around.

I understand that you do, but it was still a problem for others, is the point I'm making.

The diferent with Framwork Hydra is that it feel bigger and more menacing, Aida feel a proper villian and it help that it have Leopold Fitz which is fucking terrifying as force and good excuse to just not jump out the outside.

Kasius feel like a Young novel villian, taking to much and letting the system do the job.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Wait, weren't you just defending the guy? I'm confused.

Though I agree about the Framework working better as a setting than the bad future. And I actually cared more about the virtual people there than about the people from the future, as it was a seperate reality that could have been worth preserving, while the bad future was to be avoided at all costs.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

Oh, I agree that the Framework was a better setting, but that's also because it was filled with characters we already knew just with a twist (like Actually Good Ward). The Bad Future had pretty much all brand new characters, which takes time to get to know and like, and even when you do like them, you know they are going to be left behind once the Agents go back to the past. (Well, most of them — Deke got to come with them, although I liked Flint more than Deke.)

Also, nobody can match Aida as the villain. She was so complex, it was great.

Samurai Jack mang.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

It's not that it can't be done — see the Framework — just that it wasn't done well here. Difficult to get invested, because of the way they did it. Not impossible, had they done it some other way.

And Samurai Jack is different because Jack being stuck in the future is the premise — that's the status quo of the show, and getting back to the point where the past can be changed is the end goal. "Space" is a side story, and getting back is only step one.

Edited by Unsung on Dec 21st 2018 at 6:28:06 AM

Gotta get back, back to the past, Samurai Jack. Gotta get back, back to the past, Samurai Jack.

...Sorry, it just popped into my head and wouldn't go away.

I imagine that happens a lot.

One Strip! One Strip!

"Wait, weren't you just defending the guy? I'm confused.

"

I brainfarted when I wrote that, what I want to said the only good thing is Ftiz cosplaying as villian.....

I really like the actor when being a villian.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I think nobody (hopefully) would object to Aida being the shows best villain so far.

I mean I loved Ward, I loved Hive, I even liked Gideon Malick more than most people, but Aida is in a whole 'nother league. And she basically played 3 different versions of herself (LMD Aida, Madame Hydra, Human Aida) and all were splendid.

Also add Mallory Jansen's performance as the actual Agnes to that. She is really a great actress.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

She really is. I mean, Ward was great in his own right, he is just behind her, but Aida wrecked the team even more than he ever managed to do it.

If there had been more hints to breaking the time loop in Bad Future it probably would have felt less fillery

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

I disagree with Ward, I like at first but as time when one he become to pathetic to me to care and I never feel they know what to do with him, the killing of Agent 33 was so mindbubling stupid that I give up on in.

I love malick, so far the only really intersting member of HYDRA, seen him die was very sad.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Personally I rank the villains:

• Garrett
• Ward
• Cal
• Jiaying
• Gonzales
• Aida
• Hive
• Raina
• those ghost people from the GR arc
• Whitehall

EDIT: Forgot about 'Graviton'. Eh. I'm not sure where to put him really.

Edited by Soble on Dec 21st 2018 at 8:25:00 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

Hey, Whitehall was a great villain! I'd rank him above those ghost people anyday!

Also, was Gonzales really a "villain"? Not only did he have good intentions, but Coulson ended up joining him before he died.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 21st 2018 at 8:20:27 AM

Eh, I probably could have distinguished between "Villains" and "Antagonists."

Of all the villains I just can't remember too many memorable moments with Whitehall besides him... brutally dissecting Jiaying. But he got axed halfway through the season for Jiaying to take the reins so he's the victim of being a Starter Villain.

I only put Raina higher because they gave her a part to play later on. She was the Starter Villain for Ward and Garrett.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

I will put Ward lower in the list, and Hive just a little higher, and gain I now this is bordering in faboying but I fucking really love hydra fitz, I really did.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I'd like him more if I could understand why Aida made him like that.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

Because Aida was in love with Fitz and wanted him to love her back.

I mean, the rest of it is just "Fitz if he grew up with his father instead of his mother and joined Hydra."

Edited by alliterator on Dec 21st 2018 at 8:44:36 AM

Yeah but... why?

There were better ways to make Fitz her lover than making him Doctor Evil. Aida went through all of that trouble to create a mirror world where everyone was their worst selves... except Mason and Ward strangely enough.

Edited by Soble on Dec 21st 2018 at 9:40:23 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

Because she was programmed to take away a person's biggest regret. And Fitz's biggest regret was that his father left him, so she gave him his father back. Which (combined with joining Hydra, a result of another regret being removed), turned him into a villain.

But she did need him to a) love her enough and b) have enough resources to build the machine that would create a real body (with lots of Inhuman powers derived from torturing Inhumans) for her.

Also, remember: she was manipulating the world, not the people. And all she could do — all she was programmed to do — was to take away one regret for each person, so she had to use those removed regrets to get a world that would give her what she wanted: a real body and a way to be with Fitz. I mean, it's not like she could just program him to love her — she had to create a scenario in which he would love her, but also one in which he could build that device and one where he would be incredibly loyal to her and so on.

Edited by alliterator on Dec 21st 2018 at 10:34:25 AM

Interestingly even evil Fitz had this unshaken sense of loyalty. I have a hard time to see him as a villain, though. Because he is still Fitz, you know….