RWBY General Discussion

Salem doesn't count. Her immortality is an entirely different curse. I'm saying that just having true magic may be enough to slow down aging.

Oddly enough, the passage of time has had an effect on her. Whether it's due to aging or corruption, she looks more and more like a humanoid Grimm than a human. Note that back when she was married to Ozma and started a family with him, she didn't have any black veins on her face.

Edited by M84 on May 16th 2023 at 10:41:26 PM

alrighty, finished volume 8

i didnt feel the need to post mid-season because there wasn't anything i felt strongly about, which im not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. even now i'm struggling to, like, come up with things i felt strongly about.

i liked most of the stuff this season, the characters played their roles well. i feel like Ironwood slipped down the "evil villain" role too quickly, but at least he played the role effectively. Watts is a great character, but his shtick of being the Volume's Diabolus ex Machina got incredibly tiring very fast. like, for Salem, Cinder, and Neo, their roles and impact on the story made sense and fit right in to the pace of the story. when things went wrong for our heroes, it felt "earned" by them. but with Watts, his hacking was borderline magical with how far-reaching and immediately impactful it was. it barely felt earned, because so much of it was "our heroes did something!" only for Watts to immediately hack it and suddenly the efforts our heroes put in didn't matter anymore.

i liked Cinder's backstory. very "cool motive, still murder" for me. i liked the situation with Oscar/Ozpin/Emerald/Hazel, though i wish Ozpin's staff's power was hinted at a bit better. i liked the dynamic with the Ace-Ops slowly changing sides, even if Harriet's stubbornness felt tiring by the end.

not sure how i feel about the new grimm being made out of silver-eyed huntsmen. it's really gross and messed up, but that's the point. not sure how much sense it really makes. but Ruby and Yang having their moment about what happened to their mom was really touching and haunting, it was a good scene.

i think the only thing that i really, really dislike is what happened to Penny.

i'm like, legitimately upset that they killed off Penny again. she didnt even go out with a big damn hero moment, she just kinda lost against Cinder, who then sucked her aura out of her, and then Jaune stabbed her to death. it's such a pathetic end for a character. and she JUST got a human body, like, i can't believe they gave her a new body, showed off how her powers work now, and then killed her off immediately. like, if we want to compare her to Pyrrha's death, then at least Pyrrha had a really good fight against Cinder,^note of course, this might just be an effect of the fight choreography being noticeably worse than in the first three volumes knowing it was hopeless, and stopped Cinder long enough that people got evacuated. and it felt like a proper end to Pyrrha's character arc. with Penny, it really feels like they killed her because they didn't know what to do with her. or just for shock value. again. if they wanted to kill her, they shouldn't have bothered with the whole "she's going to explode herself" plot point and made her fight off Cinder with a broken, beat up body, knowing that she was going to lose but protecting the people anyway. that would have been more compelling and given her an actual big moment. heck, they could have even just had her take Winter's role at the end and protect/lead the people to Vacuo, with Winter by her side after she beats Ironwood (rather than losing to him). the only compliment i can give about this plot point is that her passing on the torch to Winter was a sweet moment, and made sense given Penny and Winter's relationship and Winter's character arc.

maybe i'm just biased against it because Penny was my favorite character, and now she's been killed again by the protagonists.

all in all, i can't say i hated Volume 8, can't say i loved it. i'm just... lukewarm on it. it was thoroughly okay. so, one of the better volumes of RWBY.

Edited by EpicBleye on May 17th 2023 at 2:36:18 PM

Ouch.

That might count as effusive praise, really, judging from the brief moments I pop in every so often and the…curious attitude towards later Volumes I heard on the side.

I may not have seen Watts proper but I do remember seeing a famous scene on You Tube where he gives a physically brutalized woman who’s holding his life in her hands equivalent, if not worse, emotional brutality that he manages to actually survive mouthing off like that.

I don’t really know the context of it but I came away from thinking “Wow, that is…actually pretty awesome”. From Hell’s Heart, I spit at thee, so says Watts.

Familiar Woman (I think she resembles Cinder but with a fucked-up face and a Mr. Fantastic Arm): Do you have any last words?

Watts: Last words? Last words?! Well, if these are going to be my last words…THEN I HAVE SOME GODDAMN LAST WORDS FOR YOU, YOU CYCLOPTIC BRAT

(Link below because I don’t know how to embed You Tube links on a phone in the site’s format.)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vPpyFOJAFDI&t=1s&pp=ygUTd2F0dHMgcm9hc3RzIGNpbmRlcg%3D%3D

Edited by fredhot16 on May 17th 2023 at 11:51:45 AM

i do think that scene with Watts is really good, if only because it leads to Cinder playing smarter with good scenes/plot beats that come out of it, and ultimately to Watts's own death.

the scene isn't about how smart and awesome Watts is, though. it's about how his arrogance lead to his death when he thought he was outsmarting/manipulating Cinder.

i mean, i guess the scene could be about how badass Watts is. but it would make me have even less faith in the writers than i already do.

Edited by EpicBleye on May 17th 2023 at 6:17:55 AM

I didn't feel much about Penny until I heard "Friend."

This is only a theory of mine, so bear that in mind. I think the reason for this is because it's connected to Ozpin and Cinder's fight in Volume 3, which still remains something of a mystery. Something happened in that fight, and it's been my theory for years that Cinder didn't kill Ozpin so much as he sacrificed his life. And it involved an explosion from his cane, which we see the beginning of before the scene changes. Oscar tapped into that same power, and then used all of it on a much greater scale in Volume 8.

I did say back in the day (when the episode happened) that I'd put together a post with images to show it better than relying solely on words; I collected all the screenshots I'd need, but I never got around to making the actual post. The short of it is that I think we have seen this ability before (albeit on a much smaller and more self-contained scale), and the reason for the lack of information is because of CRWBY's obsession with spoilers.

This actually ties in to Penny's death as well, as I think the spoilerific information isn't the cane's power but what Ozpin was doing and why. Penny made a choice: she couldn't stop Cinder from obtaining the Relic of Creation but she could stop Cinder from obtaining the Winter Maiden's power. Ozpin couldn't stop Cinder from obtaining the Fall Maiden's power, but he could stop Cinder from obtaining the Relic of Choice. Penny and Ozcar have been paralleled throughout the Atlas Arc, and I kept pointing it out at the time, and I think the parallel continued right to her death. Oscar and Penny in Volume 8 are clues about what happened in Volume 3 between Cinder and Ozpin, and ultimately the mystery about the Relic of Choice.

Like I said, it's just a theory of mine, but I've mentioned before that I think CRWBY has a big problem with their attitude towards people figuring things out before they want people to figure things out. They're very obsessed with protecting reveals and twists to the point where I think they hold back too much, and I think Ozpin's cane is one of the casualties of this.

I suppose it depends on what it is that doesn't make much sense. Conceptually, at least, we've had Grimm hybrids in the show since the very beginning, although we didn't know that until Volume 3, when Cinder's flashback episode revealed how she stole the first half of Amber's power (Grimm fusion), and that took place a couple of months before the first episode, according to CRWBY.

In terms of why, my theory is because Jinn implied the silver-eyed warriors are descended from a past host of Oz. The inventor who created the cane had two silver-eyed children by an unnamed woman with very vivid blue eyes; Jinn also implied that this host was the first time Oz was truly living in harmony with his host (and the vision shows two versions of the character — one in the forefront, living his life, and one in the background lending support when asked. I think that's the host living his life and being in control, and Ozma's in the background, subordinate to the host.

If it is the case that Ozma is the ultimate ancestor of the silver-eyed warriors, then that'll be a kick in the teeth for Salem on multiple levels — for example, her magical children by Oz died, robbing her of her family and her chance to spread her descendents across the world; meanwhile, Ozma's magical descendents by another woman did spread across the world, and they can kill the Grimm she's taken command of. As we know from the Volume 3 ending, she's vowed to destroy Ozma by proxy — forcing him to watch as everything he's created and cared about is torn apart in front of him. Originally, she was just killing SEW, but now she's doing something different. I don't think there can be any greater example of this than her finding turning the SEW into the very antithesis of what they're empowered to destroy and sending them back against their own ancestor.

Again, this is just a theory of mine. But this post is entirely about concepts and not about how such a hybrid would even be made.

I think the creation of the Hound will ultimately be revealed to have been the end result of an accident and that Salem hadn't conceptualized anything about it before meeting Summer. Right now, I think that Summer fell into one of the Grimm Pools and her eyes... reacted to the stuff.

It also show the arms lens battle the two have in how they move into move and counter move over and over and over, ozpin have the brotherhood with him and the might of the four kindoms but salem very well know the aliance is fragile(specially with the fact that brotherhood cant tell anyone about salem, ergo they cant overly act) so they go with this cover act.

Salem creating the hound is something of a master piece, is stealing ozpin child to make them "hers" it also bring asociation with witches and child sacrifice

Oh, whatever happened with Summer is almost certainly going to involved something that was unexpected and accidental. But it triggered a whole new world of experimentation for Salem that opened the door to the "poetry" of turning SEW into the antithesis of what they stand for instead of just killing them like she used to do.

I'm still expecting an undead Grimmified Summer to be the agent who is searching for the Relic of Choice, however.

Edited by Wyldchyld on May 19th 2023 at 12:09:59 PM

Not totally sure if this is the right place for this but I really liked this fan animation of a duel between two OCs.

It has a lot of the things that I feel have been missing from the latest RWBY volumes.

• Creative use of Dust: Dust is used for more than just charging up power or making explosions. Shaping it into different weapons with different elemental effects is inspired and it's really weird that RWBY itself hasn't tapped into this aside from that one fight between Cinder and Raven.
• Weight: Both fighters clearly have weight behind their hits and it shows with how they progress in the fight. Both of them get knocked down and thrown away by their superhumanly strong hits. Obsidius, the big sword guy in particular makes use of a lot of centrifugal force to swing around his weapon while taking advantage of its rocket thrusters for even more impact.
• Motion: Both fighters are constantly moving in interesting, stylish ways that would only be practical if both fighters had superpowers. This means that the environment is changing and progress is being made in the fight. Compare that to Yang and Blake fighting the Jabberwalkers, in which they flip and jump around a lot to generate the illusion of progress. Giving each motion purpose means that the fight is much more engaging.

I think it's also pretty interesting how differently both characters approach the fight. Obsidius (the sword guy) walks in with confidence and basically takes control with his overwhelming defense and offense. He's clearly less nimble than Simin (the guy using Dust weapons), who gets some quick hits in when he's fighting extremely closely where Obsidius' greatsword is far too unwieldy.

But he doesn't panic and recreates that distance through hand-to-hand combat. He's similar to Pyrrha in that he uses only as much movement as necessary to maintain an advantage. Compare that to Simin flipping around and bouncing off the walls in search of openings that stop appearing after a certain point.

I would have liked a little more facial animation, but it's clear who's struggling here. Simin is gritting his teeth the whole time, while Obsidius walks into the fight with a smirk and is grinning as the fight continues. He's enjoying this fight and is completely self-assured, but not cocky, that he'll win. It's good, minimalist storytelling.

There are some flaws though. The animation is clearly fan-quality given the low-poly textures and particle effects. It also isn't always clear what each fighter's Semblances are.

But all in all, it's a really solid bit of fight choreography that clearly takes cues from Monty's styliziation while remaining a little more grounded. If RWBY's fights were more like this, I think they would be a lot more engaging to watch.

Edited by reppuzan on May 23rd 2023 at 1:45:25 AM

Given how Salem's appearance has become more and more Grimm-like over the ages, I wonder if that's actually a consequence of how she regenerates herself.

I'm guessing that maybe her regeneration isn't flawless. Each time she recovers from severe enough damage, she loses a little more of her original human body and becomes more Grimm. We do know that at least back when she and Ozma were a couple she was still human enough to give birth to children who looked perfectly human. Who knows if that's still the case now — not that she's in any hurry to have any more kids.

Perhaps, but it'd kinda undermine her perfect immortality and the lesson she's supposed to learn if she somehow has a regeneration limit and can become fully Grimm before she learns it.

She'd still be alive even as a full Grimm. If anything her being unable to perfectly regenerate and still not being able to die makes it even more of a curse.

Damn that's some really impressive work

Yeah, the animator hadn't posted anything to YouTube in years, so this is a heck of a way to put himself back on the map.

I have discovered that Ambrosius' VA, Valentine Stokes is the guy who did the "It was me Barry" memes

"It was me Ruby. I was the one who didn't put railings on the walkways, to make sure you would fall off the side."

alright, finished volume 9! i have a lot more to talk about than i did with volume 8, which might say more about volume 8 than it does 9

aaaaand that's it for RWBY. if this is truly the end for the show then... i guess there's worse points for a show to get cancelled.

volume 9 was pretty good overall, i liked the way it explored its characters and made use of the setting. not as good as volume 7, but i think one of the better volumes of the show.

i'll probably make a post about my feelings of the show overall sometime soon.

To be fair, a lot of RWBY's homages are basically "x but Edgy" if you think about it.

And the only really "edgy" part is their interpretation of the Cheshire Cat being a selfish murdering asshat.

there's also how Alyx went around the ever after making everybody's lives worse and being actively malicious

which is like, a token staple of edgy Alice in Wonderland

whereas Alice proper was clueless but meant well

not to mention the Jabberwocks eating people and the Prince actively executing people

Edited by EpicBleye on May 24th 2023 at 11:22:33 AM

It wasn't a staple in American McGee's Alice. Sure, Alice is Ax-Crazy in those games, but she has to be to survive since Wonderland has been warped into a nightmare.

As for the Prince executing people, that's no edgier than the Queen of Hearts.

It should be noted that the Jabberwock wasn't actually from the original Alice in Wonderland story. It came from a different Lewis Carroll work, the nonsense poem "Jabberwocky".

Like I said, the one element of the original Alice in Wonderland story that RWBY made comparatively darker and edgier was the Cheshire Cat.

Edited by M84 on May 24th 2023 at 11:25:45 PM

i know, and that's one of the few "edgy alice in wonderland" works that i actually like. it makes great use of twisting the original setting and themes of the book to create something new while understanding what the book was about.

the book also makes it clear that the threats are largely empty (as the King pardons those sentenced to execution almost immediately) and anytime an execution does attempt to actually take place there's some silliness that prevents it.

yes, i know. the original poem was featured in Alice through the Looking Glass, which is why people connect the two so strongly, despite the fact that neither the Jabberwocky nor the Vorpal Blade actually exist or have any meaning.

that's very provably not true. as you mentioned, the Jabberwocky wasn't actually in the story proper. in RWBY the Jabberwock hunts down and eats people. and that's not to mention that, again, Alyx was actively malicious and made the world worse in RWBY while Alice was clueless but kindhearted and stuck up for people several times in the books. like, both these things are very strictly darker and edgier than the original work.

Edited by EpicBleye on May 24th 2023 at 11:43:27 AM

The point is that the Ever After for the most part is not really a darker and edgier setting than Wonderland. What makes this story darker is the fact that the visitors are not an ordinary child with no real baggage.

I will also note that the Jabberwock was still a dangerous monster in the original poem. So the series’ take on it is not edgier than the original.

Edited by M84 on May 24th 2023 at 11:54:21 PM

I would say the show kind of subverts the 'Edgy Alice' thing. It's posited by Jaune that the whole place was truthfully a Crapsaccharine World meant to 'feed the tree' or that the Alice equivalent is an evil sociopath. Before it turns out Jaune was wrong about how the Ever After works and Alyx changed her ways by the end.

The volume still has dark themes, but not anymore then the show already had. Heck, it's lighter in some ways. The whole beheading thing, Wich is a wonderland staple, is less brutal here sense no one stays dead in the Ever After.