RWBY General Discussion

Ozpin is some sort of shady. Whether he's shadier than he appears or not is kind of debatable, since everything is just vague enough that we cannot tell. The bird thing does seem to be a much larger problem in-universe rather than for the viewers, which leads to the confusion.

Thing is, most of Hazel and his sister at this point is pure speculation. I would assume that his sister died on some Ozluminati business rather than regular Huntsman business (since, for someone who kills Huntsmen semi-regularly, I expect Hazel to have a semblance of knowledge of what "Huntsman" even is), but we have absolutely no proof of that at the moment. His sister might have chosen to be there, but she might have been recruited specifically because she wouldn't say no on top of her general prowess, like Pyrrha was.

It all boils down to a pointed question. Ozpin's vague endgame is "stop Salem", but what is Salem's endgame? What justifies that Hazel works with someone decidedly as shady (and with a shitty taste in employees) as Ozpin? (or even more so since, you know, Grimm color scheme and an ominous cathedral)

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Sep 14th 2018 at 4:43:46 PM

Guys I know were Ruby silver eyes powers went to (go to 0:54)

@ Tobias Drake

That's not quite the same thing, not even in the same league since you're combining rank and file military with intelligence agencies. A more appropriate analogy is that when he signed up Private Johnson was told he'd most likely see combat against insurgents, when in fact he's really being drafted into a private war by a reincarnating magician who is pulling the strings of the leaders of every army in the world, against Satan himself who harbours a specific grudge against said magician.

Because when you look at it the entire huntsman and huntress academy system was created by Ozpin for his own ends, and he has such influence that it's been stated (albeit by Word of God) that he picked each headmaster for a specific reason. But nobody signing up to become a huntsman knows that, in fact they are being withheld very specific information that is in their best interest to know as all of the huntsmen and huntresses of Mistral can attest to. Well, they would be able to attest to it if they weren't all killed because of an enemy they didn't know existed had a vested interest in their deaths.

Incorrect, both Jeff and Casey have confirmed the song is split between Raven and Cinder's point of view and is jointly their song. Casey even has expressed some amusement when people on twitter try to tell her that it's not.

All of this is just speculation as we don't know the full story as Hazel is not in the state of mind to explain it and Ozpin doesn't exactly give Oscar any details. The current theory people have is that Hazel's sister was caught up in his schemes like team RWBY or STRQ were and died because of it. And if it was that then that would be a perfectly justifiable reason to be angry since we saw in Volume 2 Ozpin bent the rules and sent RWBY out on a mission that was deemed too dangerous for first years. To steal your Private Johnson example, imagine if his sister was going through basic training and then died because hypothetical reincarnating magician decided to allow her to remove all of her armour and safety equipment and run dangerous courses outside of the safety restrictions. Not a good look.

Also at this point I'm stealing Private Johnson, he is now my go-to analogy for terrible things happening to people.

RWBY seems to now be RT exclusive starting with Vol 6.

So does this mean it won't be on Youtube anymore?

Think so. It looks like RT posting future episodes of RWBY on YouTube have come to a dead end.

Edited by gjjones on Sep 14th 2018 at 2:37:32 PM

If they remove old episodes that would be a mistake.

I'm sorry that link just showed me this week's schedule, no mention of RWBY from what I could see.

Also people thought that RWBY Chibi was a site exclusive but that's starting to go up on YT, just two months after it's released on the RT site.

Can't get buried in downvotes and negative comments if you don't upload it on a platform where it can be downvoted.

Has that happened on any RWBY video ever? Because the finale to Volume 5 gas 61 thousand more pivoted than downvotes

This is because You Tube and their shitty practices (they recently demonitised Red vs Blue videos then sent them an email offering to teach them how to make profitable videos) and them losing money from dealing with You Tube's drama.

Edited by Shaoken on Sep 15th 2018 at 9:11:35 PM

the video about vol 6 link mention in the video [1]

Edited by Ryno_v on Sep 15th 2018 at 7:14:00 AM

sorry for the double post but RWBY Chibi Season 3 Episode 11 has been uploaded.

Asking people to sign up for a cause who are likely to agree is not shady. It is how you get people in your cause. It's a better plan than asking people who are likely to refuse.

Targeted canvassing and recruitment is used by a wide variety of causes.

And who executes that grudge via the very insurgents Private Johnson signed up to fight. Thus, he fights the insurgents and if he does really well, he might be given a higher level of clearance and asked - entirely voluntarily, mind you - if he wants that larger responsibility that comes with it.

He is not actually required to do anything but fight those insurgents he came here to fight. His level of involvement is entirely up to him.

None of that excuses the fact that Hazel is working for the people most likely to have actually literally killed his sister. Unless there's a third side in this conflict that hasn't shown up yet, Salem's forces are directly responsible for her death, which by all rights should matter more than Oz being indirectly responsible.

It's exactly the kind of tortured logic required to try and make Oz look shady in the first place. "Private Johnson joined the military and was killed by insurgents, so I'm going to join the insurgents and get revenge on the military for letting the insurgents kill her!"

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 15th 2018 at 8:09:51 AM

Blast it all. Looks like we're going to use the RT website for future episodes after all.

You Tube could have avoided this by not hurting creators

You know what would have made more sense if you wanted Ozpin to be morally grey?

If his powers did come with a geas (magic command) that if the user turned against him they would be barred from entering any of the kingdoms (and would thus not be able to harm him, or spread word of the truth); perhaps they could enter for short periods of time but would quickly begin to get very ill.

So when Raven decided to ditch him, she became afflicted by his spell and was forced to flee the kingdom - she would know about this beforehand, so the responsibility of her abandoning her family would still remain her choice, but the situation becomes more complex than it was originally (and it would make Ozpin more morally grey if his power and secrets come with a price, like a fey).

I have no problem with the mistakes Weiss was making in the Vernal fight because it makes sense for her character.

Her character arc has been about achieving independence from her father, but it has not (yet) been about achieving independence.

She relies very heavily on her sister to the point where her plan of escape from her father consisted of 'escape him by running off to Winter'.

Her Volume 5 character short was a flashback to Winter warning her that she wouldn't always be around to protect Weiss. Volume 5 was where Weiss finally learned that lesson; she wasn't initially concerned by her capture because she thought that Winter would magically find out she'd been captured, magically figure out where she was being held and swoop in to the rescue.

Now look at what happened when she learned that Winter wouldn't be able to come to her rescue. She turned to her knight. From that moment on, her first port of call for absolutely everything that happens is to summon the knight to protect her. Even in her first fight of the volume (the Lancers), the knight isn't her first choice, it's actually her last choice. It's the captivity, learning that Winter can't protect her, that changes everything. We see it happen in her expression when she summons the tiny form of the knight — for a moment she's in absolute awe but in a very vulnerable way, and then her expression changes to something that's both determined and delighted.

Weiss is still looking for someone to protect her instead of learning how to be genuinely independent and fight for herself. Previously, she thought she only had to fight long enough for Winter to come to her side. Now, she's learned that relying on Winter is unreliable, she's turned to something that genuinely is always by her side.

The Vernal fight so openly attacked Weiss's strategy of relying on the knight, to the point of lampshading the mentality of this being the 'easy' option, that I'm hoping that the Vernal fight is a part of a growth story for Weiss, where she has to learn that she needs to move away from the mentality that others will protect her and towards a mentality where she protects herself and her summoning becomes a trump card instead of a substitute for Winter.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 15th 2018 at 10:59:18 AM

I think my issue with it was Weiss being depicted as sloppy in order to justify her relying on the knight and then when it becomes obvious she won't get an opportunity to summon it, she still insists on using it.

The issue you mentioned seems like it was tailored just to create this problem rather than it being a logical step from everything we have seen from Weiss.

Edited by Cross on Sep 15th 2018 at 7:51:39 AM

I view it as the other way around: she didn't call the knight because she was sloppy. Trying to call the knight is what made her sloppy.

There are a lot of signs that some of the Wizard of Oz references are via the appalling work, Wicked (based on a novel by the same name) — from Faunus rights issues to the concept of the 'inherited' body-surfing soul.

In that work, Elphaba is the only one who recognises the villainy of the Wizard (who is the real Big Bad) and her opposition to him is what leads her to become the Wicked Witch of the West. Oh, and she's the Wizard's secret daughter, too.

So, I'll give you one guess as to what I'm worried could be revealed in Cinder's background (or Salem's, for that matter, given the Wicked Witch connection).

Well, ignoring the fact that 'reincarnation' has several different concepts depending on which culture, religion or philosophy you're talking about (because your general point at Ozpin moving into an existing person instead of being 'born' is valid for most of them), I'm going to point out just one thing:

Even though Ozpin told Oscar that his childhood experience was like Oscar's experience, there's an implication in the show that the Ozpin-to-Oscar surf is odd or in some way unusual. Several of the villains indicate that Ozpin's reincarnation has happened strangely fast and Leo intimates that there's something very different about Ozpin's reincarnation, right down to the fact that Ozpin's ability to meet back up with Qrow is odd.

Now, we already have signs that Ozpin and Qrow had something pre-arranged — Qrow picked up Ozpin's cane, travelled to Mistral and Oscar gave him a clearly pre-arranged phrase to identify himself ('I'm supposed to tell you: I'd like my cane back'). Further, Salem didn't seem to believe that Cinder was capable of killing Ozpin. She forced Cinder to confirm verbally and not lie about it at a time when Cinder could barely speak, and upon receiving confirmation wondering what Ozpin was planning.

So, my guess is that Ozpin deliberately sacrificd his life and possibly that a deliberate sacrifice enables him to Body Surf much faster than he normally would (i.e., come back faster). There could be several reasons why. One big one is that by voluntarily ('choosing') sacrificing his life to the Fall Maiden, he has somehow strengthened the protections surrounding the Relic of Choice, hence his 'extra precautions' comment to Ruby about the safety of the Relic of Choice.

He has unknown parents. The woman he was living with was his aunt, not his mother.

Salem appears to only want to destroy humanity because Ozpin has faith in humanity. If Ozpin didn't care about humans, the implication is that Salem wouldn't care either.

Her plan seems to be about destroying Ozpin. Since she can't kill him, she has to 'destroy' him another way. She appears to have picked his optimism/positivity/hope.

The ambiguity attached to Ozpin is consistent in that it seems to be that, for some reason, certain people who know a lot of about Ozpin and Salem seem to think that it is utterly impossible to defeat Salem, that Ozpin knows this, but is lying about it to keep people trying to defeat her.

So, the question is: why does Salem want to destroy Ozpin and why do people think it's impossible to stop her?

Let's move past the theory that Ozpin created Salem in some fashion and that's the reason why the gods made him responsible for stopping her (fix his mistake, essentially) because I think most people have toyed with that theory.

Now, personally, I think the key here is that Salem is attacking positive emotions — she's trying to destroy humanity's hope. She wants Ozpin's positive emotions destroyed. Ruby, who seems key to the plot, is also a hyper-positive person (at least on the surface).

The Grimm are attracted to and empowered by negative emotions. Neutral emotions don't appear to register with them. Emotional suppression seems to make people invisible to them (Ren's Semblance, and it's interesting to note that Atlas once tried emotional suppression of the entire population to combat the Grimm).

So, we've seen the impact of negative emotions, neutral emotions and emotional suppression on the Grimm. What we haven't seen is the impact of positive emotions on the Grimm.

Well, we haven't seen that for certain, that is.

During the Ruby/Roman fight, the Grimm became less problematic to Ruby the more buoyed up on positive emotions she became. The fight even threw the Grimm connection to emotion in our face by having Roman killed at the height of his negativity. There may be a clue in this fight that the Grimm were somewhat repelled by Ruby's positivity.

My guess is that positive emotion is anathema to the Grimm, it can destroy them, and that's the source of the Silver Eye power (weaponised positivity).

If so, weaponised positivity could be to Salem what pure water was to the Wicked Witch of the West. I'm already waiting to see if Ren's Semblance works on Salem (as in he can make people 'invisible' to her) because I won't be surprised to learn that it does.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 15th 2018 at 1:01:14 PM

It's official. RT is practicing black magic.

https://ew.com/tv/2018/09/15/maisie-williams-gen-lock-rooster-teeth/

Well, the show is slightly less "weeb" looking than RWBY.

...so RT found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, did they? With all this pressure from all these famous people, Gen:Lock better be the most amazing thing ever, or this is will backfire on them tremendously.

That might have been true if Pyrrha was tasked with something a fledgling Huntsman would be expected of and not a clandestine, highly dangerous operation outside the paygrade of even veteran Huntsmen (if only because how strange the task in question was). And really, "I'm sorry" might as well be Pyrrha's catchphrase.

She wasn't chosen for this because of her skill, but because that she would not refuse. There's a difference between agreeing and not refusing. Of course, as far as villains were concerned, Ozpin couldn't have picked a more obvious option. To use your private/officer comparison, you would not assign a mere private, no matter how talented, to be some important general's bodyguard/gopher/errand boy.

We don't know that, as you've stated. She might have been killed by a Grimm, but we've seen that Salem's grip on them is nowhere near as omnipotent as Ozpin would have you believe. Now, if by "forces" you mean people loyal to Salem like Cinder or Tyrian, that would indeed be a monumentally stupid decision on Hazel's part, but otherwise think of it as of a hitman deciding to take care of a collateral's family.

Naturally, Ozpin's still a whiter side in the conflict as far as we know, and he's definitely in it to protect the humanity, but his methods might be too questionable to some. I expect Ruby - his biggest hope - to eventually turn from him once she reaches a breaking point, but not to defect to Salem or wallow in self-pity like Raven - but rather find another way.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Sep 15th 2018 at 3:26:33 PM

They chose Pyrrha for a lot of reasons, but I wouldn't be surprised if her unwillingness to say "no" was one of them.

I've seen people point out the implications of when they first tell her about things, and on the elevator ride down you really notice she's a teenager girl surrounded by several adults about to dump somethings with world-wide importance on her out of nowhere.

Whether it was intentional on their parts or not (both the writers and the characters) it's hard to deny there wouldn't be some pressure on her to say "yes".

Edited by LSBK on Sep 15th 2018 at 10:26:24 AM

It's kinda like what happened to Frodo. You're just coming home from a night out with the lads, all the sudden Wizard Santa's here to tell you that you and you alone can stop the end times.