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Male Roles Vs. Female Roles in Fiction: Discussion/Analysis/Troperwank

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smokeycut Not Your Atom Bomb Baby from Rochester NY Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Not Your Atom Bomb Baby
Nov 4th 2019 at 12:53:41 PM

The only way a new Terminator could possibly work is if you just straight up rebooted. Did the first movieís premise over again. Terminator goes back in time, some guy goes back too, guy saves Sarah and winds up being Johnís dad. Terminator dies, guy probably dies too.

T2 was the most concrete ending that any franchise has ever had. The future is good now, no skynet, no terminators, everything worked out. You cannot move past that, no matter what route you take.

Everyone's favorite person
unknowing from somewhere..
Nov 4th 2019 at 1:00:24 PM

[up]

Funny thing is, MK 11 did is own ending to terminator

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Nov 4th 2019 at 1:01:12 PM

Even then a reboot of Terminator doesn't sound that appealing unless they do something really interesting to stand out.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
AlleyOop Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Nov 4th 2019 at 1:05:06 PM

The consistent failures of the sequels have done enough to sour the franchise to make me think it's not really one that needs anymore films, and reviews seem to indicate this one is So Okay, It's Average despite bringing back a lot of the original talent. Makes me think it's indeed a conceptual issue.

unknowing from somewhere..
Nov 4th 2019 at 1:07:43 PM

Funny thing, I like salvation, the idea of actuing going into the future as whole since better than just reashing the concept over and over again, but that is me I guess.

Something else Tobias kinda point out is how much John connor have started to matter less and less with each movie and it show you how much of artefact he have become.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere
Planeswalker
Nov 4th 2019 at 1:14:39 PM

I liked the third (dumb blatant Narmy fanservice moments aside), and I think Salvation was the real only logical way for the series to progress after that one (but it had some flaws for sure). The others have just seemed silly after that.

Oissu!
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Exposition Dragon
Nov 4th 2019 at 1:38:39 PM

I'm seeing Dark Fate on Wednesday so I can't speak yet to its quality. But the ill-conceived sequel that I liked most was actually Genisys, for actually making the effort to try and break new ground with the premise.

Genisys was an attempt at a soft reboot, intended to smash open this closed-and-done franchise with a hammer and create a complex plot worth exploring out of nothing. Its entire function was to serve as a springboard, converting a franchise that cannot launch sequels into one that can.

It did not work, but I admire the effort made. And it had some pretty neat robot fights, so I could at least appreciate that.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 4th 2019 at 2:40:31 AM

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
unknowing from somewhere..
Nov 4th 2019 at 1:46:30 PM

I would like more if didnt try to go back to Sarah, time travel, terminator arnold and more old foolery in order to spring new concept, in that way, Salvation feel more original.

Also John connor as terminator is a good idea sure, but the end result feel like pretty buch diet Ultron....

Hell, I find Connornaitor being more Ultron than Ultron itself was in the movie.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
SpookyMask Insert title from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Insert title
Nov 5th 2019 at 2:35:11 AM

Like if you reboot terminator, the any CGI terminator isn't really gonna be as scary as "Ah shit that is real metal puppet" thing tongue

But yeah, definitely agreeing that Terminator sequels don't work that well since second movie ended on spot where any other sequel is just kinda ruin the ending.

I think only other way to do it would be to have terminator plot without time travel, buuuuuuuuut yeaaaah.

Edited by SpookyMask on Nov 5th 2019 at 12:37:12 PM

Time to change the style, for now
Euodiachloris Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Nov 5th 2019 at 2:54:45 AM

[up]Seconded on the physical prop thing.

Don't get me wrong, I love T2 and the idea of shapeshifting silver goo. But, there's a reason they mostly stuck to overlaying the silver on (mostly) Robert Patrick.

When turned into a fully blobbed set of rendered algorithms trying to move, the effect lacks weight of its own.

You can't beat actually having a real thing to run or recoil from.

Just hire the Henson team if you want a no-rubber-suit-yet-still-physically imposing baddy. And, Simon Pegg's voice, if he's available (nailed the deliciously evil Chancellor).

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Nov 5th 2019 at 3:12:51 AM

I used to read the Dark Horse Terminator comics and books. You could make a fun trilogy out of Sarah and John running together from a lot of nasty Terminators hunting them.

That was,in fact, basically the premise of the series.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
SpookyMask Insert title from Corner in round room Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Insert title
Nov 5th 2019 at 3:23:28 AM

^You could make a tv show or comic like that yeah, but as movie it sounds unnecessary

Time to change the style, for now
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere
Planeswalker
Nov 5th 2019 at 11:23:39 PM

Wasn't that the whole premise of The Sarah Connor Chronicles?

Oissu!
unknowing from somewhere..
Nov 6th 2019 at 7:17:33 AM

More or less, the series take the premise of the third movie about sarah going to die and kinda sorta repeat the whole the whole terminator 2 with her protecting John as young men.

There is also stuff like a terminator creating the formula for is flesh suit and then killing the man, it was pretty creepy awsome.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Nov 6th 2019 at 9:49:52 AM

I feel like the latest movie has some ups and downs but kind of guts the core of the story. It's great that the new leader of the human race is a woman of color but the movie kind of emotionally forgets that John Connor was Sarah's son and that everything she did was to protect him—which she fails miserably at. Yeah, humanity is saved but...so what? The personal story is lost.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 6th 2019 at 9:51:47 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Exposition Dragon
Nov 7th 2019 at 3:26:41 PM

Having seen the movie yesterday, I have a question for Terminator fans.

To everyone who's upset about John Connor's unnecessary and mean-spirited death in the first five minutes: do you understand now why fridging is bad?

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Nov 7th 2019 at 3:30:33 PM

I haven't seen the movie but I think most of us already understood why fridging is bad :p

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Nov 7th 2019 at 3:35:18 PM

We would if not for the fact that they tried to do it in Salvation and already did to Sarah Connor in 3.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Exposition Dragon
Nov 7th 2019 at 7:31:40 PM

So, I'm on my Xbox and the GamePass site is advertising a category of games called "Fearless Femmes". "Play as some of the toughest, smartest, daring femmes in games today".

The three games they're showing as the face of their catalog are:

  • Dishonored 2, starring Empress Emily Kaldwin
  • Gears 5, the Gears of War title with a new female protagonist, Kait Diaz.
  • Resident Evil 4, starring Leon Kennedy.

...I honestly can't tell if this is a mistake or a sick burn.

Drake's Razor: Never attribute to cold unfeeling logic that which can be equally explained by emotional outburst.
M84 Such heroic nonsense from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Such heroic nonsense
Nov 7th 2019 at 7:36:24 PM

[up]Eh, remember that RE 4 also features Ada Wong as a playable character.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nov 7th 2019 at 7:48:13 PM

[up]Though she isn't exactly the star. And from what I recall her playable section needs to be unlocked.

That said, it's telling that no matter how many levels in badass Leon takes, he still needs Ada to save him from time to time. Of course, she has her moments of distress where Leon needs to save her too.

Would Ada qualify as a Dragon Lady stereotype or a subversion of it?

M84 Such heroic nonsense from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Such heroic nonsense
Nov 7th 2019 at 7:50:12 PM

[up]Not even close. The closest we ever get to the stereotype is RE 6, and, well...

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Nov 7th 2019 at 7:58:16 PM

Ada's Asian-ness is almost entirely incidental to her character (at most her red dress has a slight resemblance to a cheongsam), so not at all.

unknowing from somewhere..
Nov 7th 2019 at 8:08:05 PM

She have shade of "misterious woman" and "femele fatale" and the whole "dating catwoman" but is incidencial to her being asian.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Nov 7th 2019 at 8:17:44 PM

Random factoid but "exotically beautiful and mysterious Chinese woman" is as much a stereotype in Japan as it is in America.

It often shows up as Foreign Fanservice.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 7th 2019 at 8:17:57 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.

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